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That's defining the U.S. luxury car market very narrowly. BMW alone sold 172,000 cars in the U.S. in the first half of this year[1]. 8% of that is more than 13,
by twoodfin 13y ago
That's defining the U.S. luxury car market very narrowly. BMW alone sold 172,000 cars in the U.S. in the first half of this year[1]. 8% of that is more than 13,000 cars, and the report is claiming Tesla sales of roughly 10,000.
Sure, not everything BMW sells is a luxury car, but the U.S. luxury car market is usually defined as much larger than 125,000 cars in a half year.
[1] http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jul/08/bmw-record-car-sales-first-half-2013 http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jul/08/bmw-record-c...
- tptacek 13y agoI'm curious where the model cutoff would be for "luxury" BMWs. They're all luxury cars, from what I can tell.
- mrkurt 13y agoEverything above a Mini.
- twoodfin 13y agoIt's debatable whether you'd call a Mini a "luxury car". They're certainly priced like they are!
- sk5t 13y agoMinis are often sold alongside BMWs but they are not branded BMWs. Otherwise... is a Bentley a Volkswagen, or vice versa?
- soperj 13y agoBMW makes vehicles other than cars(SUV, Motorcycle..)
- thrownaway2424 13y agoFor the purpose of this headline, "luxury" appears to have been defined as "expensive".
- twoodfin 13y agoWhere "expensive" was defined as "at least as expensive as a Model S".
- alixr 13y agoWhile most BMW's are expensive, I would consider the 7-series line "luxury".
- derefr 13y agoI bet there is an objective criteria for it, though (if not a very clear one). A thought-experiment: say you wreck your car, and your insurance provider is going to give you a loaner. They want this loaner car to impress you (the cost of one regular car, however nice, is not much skin off their back, especially if they get to amortize it over all the people they lend it out to; and they want to give you the impression that they've got enough money to cover any problem you might have, so that you'll keep paying your premiums--the same reason bank lobbies look so "stately.") However, they don't want to spend too much, because there's a point where cars switch from regular goods, to being Veblen goods. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good) The optimum between impressing you the most, and avoiding spending way more than the car "should" be worth for an any marginal gain of impressiveness, should define the type of car they loan out (and it does, in my experience.) You can draw the "luxury" inflection point as being exactly the next-most-expensive models up from these, where the value proposition stops making sense to economically-rational actors.
- buro9 13y agoAccording to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_classification it's less cost than the size and purpose of the vehicle. Only the 7-series is unambiguously luxury. Which aligns with my European view that a 3-series is your bog standard "large family car" or "small executive car".
- marssaxman 13y ago3-series is seen as a compact sports car here in the USA.
- buro9 13y agoSounds more like the M labelled cars, much like Benz's AMG range. Is the non-M 3-series considered sports?
- lazyjones 13y ago> BMWs. They're all luxury cars, from what I can tell. BMW 5 series are the most-purchased company cars here in Austria, they certainly aren't luxury cars anywhere outside the 3rd world, although they might enjoy a certain brand image in the US ...
- eitally 13y agoThe difference is that in the US, neither BMW nor M-B market stripper versions of their cars. In order to buy a 5 series or E Class you will end up with at least a 528 (with significant number of interior luxury features) or an E350. Both of them start at about US$50k, and to me that is squarely luxury. Interestingly, well over half of all of them are leased, not purchased.
- lazyjones 13y agoThe cheapest BMW 5 series model here in Austria sells for EUR 41900 (USD 55620) including taxes (MSRP). BMW is an expensive brand, but the 5 series is mid-range.
- justin66 13y agoThe way things are defined in the US, the BMW 5 series is a luxury car. It represents close to the maximum amount of amenities for a given size class and, well, the car magazines call it a luxury car. There's not much else to it... It's certainly possible they're equipped differently here, as so many cars are. If that's not the case and Austrians simply have a different sense of "luxury car" I wonder what you guys have that trumps the 5 series in that size category, as far as "luxury" is concerned.
- tptacek 13y agoA 55k sedan isn't "mid-range"!
- varjag 13y agoMost of the cabs where I live are Mercedes. I had three different cars in the driving school: two BMW 318 (petrol and diesel) and a Merc E270. I would hesitate calling those luxury vehicles, if only based on their ubiquitous use by working professionals.
- corford 13y agoI wouldn't call a 1 series luxury?
- beedogs 13y agoNever thought I'd see the same lame-brained arguments here that I saw on the reddit thread about this. The "luxury" class of cars is pretty narrowly defined and includes the A8 and the BMW 7 series. (No, it doesn't include the 3 or the 5, or the A6.)
- protomyth 13y agoGiven what the original report actually says, your answer might be a tad bit more lame-brained than the person you are responding to. "PEV[1] sales, while not matching up with original sales targets laid out by some auto manufacturers, have been strong for a new entrant in a market that has been dominated by internal combustion engine vehicles (ICEs) for a century. Through their first 30 months in the marketplace (2011-2013), sales of PEVs have been more than double the sales of hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) in their first years in the U.S. market (2000-2002) and the sales continue to grow—June 2013 saw the strongest PEV sales numbers yet, and more than 110,000 units have been sold to date. In the luxury segment, Tesla’s Model S has captured 8.4 percent of the market in the first six months of 2013." So, the 8.4% is actually not "luxury" class cars at all. It is a subset. 1) plug-in electric vehicles
- sk5t 13y agoI have to disagree with you; the A8, S, and 7er are "large luxury" class cars. The A6 and 5er are "midsize luxury" and the A4 / 3 are "entry luxury." One should also consider the Lexus LS, GS, GX, and LX, an occasional Cadillac, the Toyota Land Cruiser, a variety of Jaguars and Range Rovers, and on and on. It's dishonest to assert that Tesla is taking 8.4% of the entire "luxury market" and then sneak in with the next breath that the luxury market includes only flagship sedans.
- Too 13y agoIf you call A6 and 5-series luxury cars then half of Germany / northern Europe are driving luxury cars, that is by definition not luxury. Those are called "upper midrange" or "premium".
- 13y ago
- hristov 13y agoFact of the matter is any company is mostly judged based on the market they have chosen to compete in. Tesla make $70K+ cars and they should be judged based on that market. Porsche (before they were purchased by VW) used to make rather expensive cars and they would always have a rather small percentage of the overall market. But no-one would accuse Porsche of being a failure, because they did very well in their rather lucrative price brackets. In fact Porsche is often called the most successful car company ever due to their big profit margins.
- larrys 13y ago"Porsche (before they were purchased by VW) used to make rather expensive cars " Porsche still does make "rather expensive cars". What are you referring to exactly?
- hristov 13y agoWhat I mean is that I am using Porsche as an example only as it pertains to its history of an independent company. I wanted to provide an example of an independent company that is limited to making expensive cars -- i.e., something similar to Tesla.
- joosters 13y agoCar classes like 'luxury', 'midrange' and 'economy' are very loosely defined, and deliberately so. There's no point arguing over what a luxury car is, as many groups will have different answers. Car companies love this, after all how many times do you see something like "The best [insert feature here] in its class" in their marketing? Because there are so many different definitions of car classes, no-one can prove their statement wrong!
- jgalt212 13y agoI agree. They use a pretty bad (i.e. unreasonable) definition of luxury car market. I live in Manhattan (so maybe Tesla is not big here), but in the last year I've only seen 2 Teslas on the road. By comparison, I see about 5-10 Audi A8's a day.
- osi 13y agoi haven't seen a good answer from tesla for apartment dwellers, or rented parking spaces. both of which are more endemic in NYC. to own your own property and own the parking spot so that you could install a charger is a lot.
- stcredzero 13y agoFor city dwellers, something like Zipcar combined with technology where you don't have to travel to pick the car up would be ideal.
- qq66 13y agoBut what fraction of those A8s were purchased in the last six months, when Tesla has been an option?