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> We have no choice but to share our personal information with these corporations, because that’s how our world works today. While (as usual) the article makes

by azakai 13y ago

> We have no choice but to share our personal information with these corporations, because that’s how our world works today. While (as usual) the article makes some strong points, it ends on this, which is not convincing. We can certainly control the amount of information we share with these corporations. Cold turkey is indeed very hard, but using their data-collecting services less, diversifying by not using multiple services of a single company, or switching at least partially to a competing product that collects less data - are all certainly possible. Saying we are powerless and must use these services, and therefore we have to lobby government to legislate a fix, is like saying that trans fats are super-dangerous but so tasty that we have no choice but to eat them, so we need government to ban them. We should both take responsibility and eat less trans fats, and also try to limit their use through government regulation.

munin 13y ago
no, it isn't. everything is a data collecting service. want to not share this information? then don't do the following: - use a credit card - use a cell phone - use toll roads - buy utilities - buy plane tickets - use a rewards card at a grocery|electronics|drug store - use an ATM - visit a doctors office - walk down a street, or into a conveience store, or into a shopping mall, where a CCTV camera can see you - rent property - own property - rent a car - have a "regular" job - buy gas (for the car that you can't own or rent, natch) don't do the above, and proooobbly a lot of your data won't wind up in some database. do just a few of those things, and you probably have no privacy. do all (and more) of them, and probably "big data" will know when you are going to have relationship trouble before you do
- BrandonMarc 13y ago
  Sadly, you can add to that list: - drive on a road near a police car, a bridge, or many buildings ... since all of the above, often have license-plate scanners attached, compiling a comprehensive history of individual driving patterns.
  - zobzu 13y ago
    Face scanning also works, too. So basically you also have to live outside cities (and soon, in a cave)
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      Some people wear full face visors in China. https://lh3.ggpht.com/_pe4PGv4ABEk/RllW0wpgq3I/AAAAAAAAAD0/-a5dKW7emio/s320/Face+Visor.JPG https://lh3.ggpht.com/_pe4PGv4ABEk/RllW0wpgq3I/AAAAAAAAAD0/-...
  - munin 13y ago
    I was (trying to) excluding data collected by the police, since the original assertion was that this data can be denied to corporations. now, if you want to argue that ALP scanners are operated by contractors and the data is technically stored on a corporations systems, but access is only (nominally) given to LE, this gets a little stickier...
    - BrandonMarc 13y ago
      You have a point. I wasn't thinking corporate access (the "private" part of the parent article) ... and more about the "public" (government) access. After all, the license-plate scanners may be operated by local police, but you must be certain the FBI sees everything. And with them the DHS and who knows what other alphabet soup of agencies ... many of whom can also see many / all of the other items in your list. While it's true people can try to reduce their footprint, it's pretty hard to avoid doing everything on the list ... and I suspect you only need to do a small few of those and it's more than enough to get a comprehensive assessment of you.
    - Amadou 13y ago
      The biggest collections of plate-scan data are private. It started with repo-men who pay to be part of nationwide networks where they all drive around scanning every visible plate in exchange for getting hits on plates they are looking for. But, as always, those enormous databases were too tempting to just sit on and the maintainers have started looking for other ways to monetize them - if they'll sell joe lawyer a search for $10, you can be sure they are selling access to the NSA, et al too. http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamtanner/2013/07/10/data-broker-offers-new-service-showing-where-they-have-spotted-your-car/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamtanner/2013/07/10/data-broke... http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/16/4626118/a-fort-worth-firm-makes-a-device.html http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/16/4626118/a-fort-worth... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/automobiles/28REPO.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/automobiles/28REPO.html
- deleted 13y ago
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- azakai 13y ago
  My point was you can reduce the amount you do such things. You can use fewer credit cards and more cash, to take your first example. It is impossible to avoid them entirely, I agree, but we are not completely powerless.
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by azakai 13y ago

munin 13y ago

no, it isn't. everything is a data collecting service. want to not share this information? then don't do the following: - use a credit card - use a cell phone - use toll roads - buy utilities - buy plane tickets - use a rewards card at a grocery|electronics|drug store - use an ATM - visit a doctors office - walk down a street, or into a conveience store, or into a shopping mall, where a CCTV camera can see you - rent property - own property - rent a car - have a "regular" job - buy gas (for the car that you can't own or rent, natch) don't do the above, and proooobbly a lot of your data won't wind up in some database. do just a few of those things, and you probably have no privacy. do all (and more) of them, and probably "big data" will know when you are going to have relationship trouble before you do

BrandonMarc 13y ago
Sadly, you can add to that list: - drive on a road near a police car, a bridge, or many buildings ... since all of the above, often have license-plate scanners attached, compiling a comprehensive history of individual driving patterns.
- zobzu 13y ago
  Face scanning also works, too. So basically you also have to live outside cities (and soon, in a cave)
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    Some people wear full face visors in China. https://lh3.ggpht.com/_pe4PGv4ABEk/RllW0wpgq3I/AAAAAAAAAD0/-a5dKW7emio/s320/Face+Visor.JPG https://lh3.ggpht.com/_pe4PGv4ABEk/RllW0wpgq3I/AAAAAAAAAD0/-...
- munin 13y ago
  I was (trying to) excluding data collected by the police, since the original assertion was that this data can be denied to corporations. now, if you want to argue that ALP scanners are operated by contractors and the data is technically stored on a corporations systems, but access is only (nominally) given to LE, this gets a little stickier...
  - BrandonMarc 13y ago
    You have a point. I wasn't thinking corporate access (the "private" part of the parent article) ... and more about the "public" (government) access. After all, the license-plate scanners may be operated by local police, but you must be certain the FBI sees everything. And with them the DHS and who knows what other alphabet soup of agencies ... many of whom can also see many / all of the other items in your list. While it's true people can try to reduce their footprint, it's pretty hard to avoid doing everything on the list ... and I suspect you only need to do a small few of those and it's more than enough to get a comprehensive assessment of you.
  - Amadou 13y ago
    The biggest collections of plate-scan data are private. It started with repo-men who pay to be part of nationwide networks where they all drive around scanning every visible plate in exchange for getting hits on plates they are looking for. But, as always, those enormous databases were too tempting to just sit on and the maintainers have started looking for other ways to monetize them - if they'll sell joe lawyer a search for $10, you can be sure they are selling access to the NSA, et al too. http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamtanner/2013/07/10/data-broker-offers-new-service-showing-where-they-have-spotted-your-car/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamtanner/2013/07/10/data-broke... http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/16/4626118/a-fort-worth-firm-makes-a-device.html http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/16/4626118/a-fort-worth... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/automobiles/28REPO.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/automobiles/28REPO.html
deleted 13y ago
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azakai 13y ago
My point was you can reduce the amount you do such things. You can use fewer credit cards and more cash, to take your first example. It is impossible to avoid them entirely, I agree, but we are not completely powerless.
- deleted 13y ago
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- deleted 13y ago
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