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Rally Against Surveillance today in San Francisco

125 points by ndesaulniers 13y ago

rayiner 13y ago
Hope it attracts more than the shamefully pathetic 400 that turned up to the last one.
- ndesaulniers 13y ago
  Yeah, it's disappointing when Germany has bigger turnout over PRISM than we do in the US. But we do have twice as many people RSVP'd this time. But there will always be hope, wherever you are, until you yourself abandon it.
- mtgx 13y ago
  It's possible some apathy towards this issue and a feeling that this is no immediate threat to them, because US hasn't really been under dangerous regimes before, are at play here, but I also think people like to be led and organized. I think organizations like ACLU and EFF should do a lot more grassroots organizing of the protests, and get people to say "Yes, I'm coming to the protest tomorrow". Reading about the protest on a website won't guarantee many will go (and most will not). People need to be contacted by these civil liberties organizations and asked to come.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    Yes, people do need to be led. Civil libertarians have proven completely unable to lead in the last decade. Certainly, a bunch of people who think you can do it all on the internet won't be able to lead. If you want to impact political change, you need to do it the way other groups do. I have teenagers coming to my door asking if I know about Jesus. Where are the young people going door to door to spread knowledge about NSA spying?
- WalterSear 13y ago
  Who hung about all of 25 minutes, so people who were even slightly caught in traffic missed the whole thing. And with no online information of where they were marching to. The hour I spent trying to figure out what was going on,there were people showing up constantly, looking lost, fiddling with their phones and then wandering off, just like I eventually did. Very frustrating, and why I'm not there today.
  - bendoernberg 13y ago
    So there was a shortfall in planning at the last event, and thus you've decided not to participate in the future? Wouldn't the proper solution be to contact the organizers and identify the problem, or to help organize yourself so that things would run more efficiently?
    - WalterSear 13y ago
      I tried that, and got no response. There are only so many things you can do in a day: in order to make the most of that, you have give it to organizations that have their shit together.
- bendoernberg 13y ago
  What do you hope to accomplish with this comment? Why are you blaming the 400 people who showed up as "shamefully pathetic", instead of focusing your anger on those who did not show up? How do you think it feels to spend your free time working hard to organize event, only to have someone mock you for turning out a "shamefully pathetic 400"? Do you know how difficult it is to get people to show up for a protest, largely because of attitudes like yours?
zmanian 13y ago
We are also going to live stream. Link around 11. Speakers at 12:45
- ndesaulniers 13y ago
  Link?
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    It's not 11 yet.
- dhughes 13y ago
  Live stream a protest against video surveillance?
Pro_bity 13y ago
I 100% agree with with the sentiment behind this rally, but I often feel that rallies like this in San Francisco are preaching to the choir. They make the participants and observers feel better, but do little to effect real change.
- northwest 13y ago
  Again, it's not about either-or - unless one activity prevents you from participating in another activity. We need to take all bullets we can get and fire them in parallel (online and in meatspace). > They make the participants and observers feel better To some extent, this is good b/c it helps everybody to understand they're not "the only one around here who...".
- gtaylor 13y ago
  You're right, maybe they shouldn't do anything at all and just accept the status quo. Comments like this just boil my blood. Get off your tail, stop being apathetic, be a part of the solution.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    False dichotomy. Rallies in San Francisco are just excuses for like minded people to circlejerk. Its a politically irrelevent city, because it has no votes in play. Want to have some actual impact, some actual chance to change hearts and minds, go protest in Utah, where you can connect the cause to the site, or DC, or heck Iowa, where you can take advantage of their natural libertarian streak and there are votes to be swayed.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - clicks 13y ago
    Rayiner: your comment is marked as dead, I think because you used the word circle.... Perhaps try re-posting without it. Edit: actually here, I did it for you: False dichotomy. Rallies in San Francisco are just excuses for like minded people to have a merry old time. It's a politically irrelevant city, because it has no votes in play. Want to have some actual impact, some actual chance to change hearts and minds, go protest in Utah, where you can connect the cause to the site, or DC, or heck Iowa, where you can take advantage of their natural libertarian streak and there are votes to be swayed.
weisser 13y ago
I wish I had found out about this before today (I would have returned to Boston for it). I'm sure many people are in the same boat.
- WalterSear 13y ago
  The organizers of this local group don't inspire any confidence.
  - bendoernberg 13y ago
    Please let us know when you've scheduled a date for your well-planned, confidence-inspiring protest.
jivatmanx 13y ago
I think it would be more effective to begin organizing a primary challenge to Nancy Pelosi. Residents of San Francisco have the unique ability to send a message to the minority leader, and therefore, the entire democratic party. The leverage, or political return on effort, for challenging a house party leader is far greater than for any other elected official. (Senate leaders have far more constituents)
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- northwest 13y ago
  Good idea, provided you're not saying it's an either-or.
- rayiner 13y ago
  Yes! Put your money where your mouth is and raise money to oust Pelosi. The tech community is the "moneyed interests" here. They should be able to at least give her a big scare.
  - ihsw 13y ago
    The tech industry has been complicit in this, and I think how the Democrat party resonates with them can be summarized as such: > What you can control cannot hurt you. I think this explains why those in the tech industry either stand firmly and resolutely with the government (and firmly belonging to the Democrat party), or their political allegiance follows along Libertarian lines because such statements instill a strong sense of anxiety and trepidation.
    - rayiner 13y ago
      Are you saying the democratic party controls tech or the other way around? Neither is true. The tech industry is phenomenally impotent in political issues, and neither party cares enough about tech to want to control it. The tech industry is to the democratic party like the faithful wife who gets cheated on. Tech folks vote reliably democrat, or not at all, so there is zero reason to care about their interests.
zmanian 13y ago
Live Stream: http://youtu.be/vbMf9sc1NL0 http://youtu.be/vbMf9sc1NL0

125 points by ndesaulniers 13y ago

rayiner 13y ago

Hope it attracts more than the shamefully pathetic 400 that turned up to the last one.

ndesaulniers 13y ago
Yeah, it's disappointing when Germany has bigger turnout over PRISM than we do in the US. But we do have twice as many people RSVP'd this time. But there will always be hope, wherever you are, until you yourself abandon it.
mtgx 13y ago
It's possible some apathy towards this issue and a feeling that this is no immediate threat to them, because US hasn't really been under dangerous regimes before, are at play here, but I also think people like to be led and organized. I think organizations like ACLU and EFF should do a lot more grassroots organizing of the protests, and get people to say "Yes, I'm coming to the protest tomorrow". Reading about the protest on a website won't guarantee many will go (and most will not). People need to be contacted by these civil liberties organizations and asked to come.
- rayiner 13y ago
  Yes, people do need to be led. Civil libertarians have proven completely unable to lead in the last decade. Certainly, a bunch of people who think you can do it all on the internet won't be able to lead. If you want to impact political change, you need to do it the way other groups do. I have teenagers coming to my door asking if I know about Jesus. Where are the young people going door to door to spread knowledge about NSA spying?
WalterSear 13y ago
Who hung about all of 25 minutes, so people who were even slightly caught in traffic missed the whole thing. And with no online information of where they were marching to. The hour I spent trying to figure out what was going on,there were people showing up constantly, looking lost, fiddling with their phones and then wandering off, just like I eventually did. Very frustrating, and why I'm not there today.
- bendoernberg 13y ago
  So there was a shortfall in planning at the last event, and thus you've decided not to participate in the future? Wouldn't the proper solution be to contact the organizers and identify the problem, or to help organize yourself so that things would run more efficiently?
  - WalterSear 13y ago
    I tried that, and got no response. There are only so many things you can do in a day: in order to make the most of that, you have give it to organizations that have their shit together.
bendoernberg 13y ago
What do you hope to accomplish with this comment? Why are you blaming the 400 people who showed up as "shamefully pathetic", instead of focusing your anger on those who did not show up? How do you think it feels to spend your free time working hard to organize event, only to have someone mock you for turning out a "shamefully pathetic 400"? Do you know how difficult it is to get people to show up for a protest, largely because of attitudes like yours?

zmanian 13y ago

We are also going to live stream. Link around 11. Speakers at 12:45

ndesaulniers 13y ago
Link?
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  It's not 11 yet.
dhughes 13y ago
Live stream a protest against video surveillance?

Pro_bity 13y ago

I 100% agree with with the sentiment behind this rally, but I often feel that rallies like this in San Francisco are preaching to the choir. They make the participants and observers feel better, but do little to effect real change.

northwest 13y ago
Again, it's not about either-or - unless one activity prevents you from participating in another activity. We need to take all bullets we can get and fire them in parallel (online and in meatspace). > They make the participants and observers feel better To some extent, this is good b/c it helps everybody to understand they're not "the only one around here who...".
gtaylor 13y ago
You're right, maybe they shouldn't do anything at all and just accept the status quo. Comments like this just boil my blood. Get off your tail, stop being apathetic, be a part of the solution.
- rayiner 13y ago
  False dichotomy. Rallies in San Francisco are just excuses for like minded people to circlejerk. Its a politically irrelevent city, because it has no votes in play. Want to have some actual impact, some actual chance to change hearts and minds, go protest in Utah, where you can connect the cause to the site, or DC, or heck Iowa, where you can take advantage of their natural libertarian streak and there are votes to be swayed.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- clicks 13y ago
  Rayiner: your comment is marked as dead, I think because you used the word circle.... Perhaps try re-posting without it. Edit: actually here, I did it for you: False dichotomy. Rallies in San Francisco are just excuses for like minded people to have a merry old time. It's a politically irrelevant city, because it has no votes in play. Want to have some actual impact, some actual chance to change hearts and minds, go protest in Utah, where you can connect the cause to the site, or DC, or heck Iowa, where you can take advantage of their natural libertarian streak and there are votes to be swayed.

weisser 13y ago

I wish I had found out about this before today (I would have returned to Boston for it). I'm sure many people are in the same boat.

WalterSear 13y ago
The organizers of this local group don't inspire any confidence.
- bendoernberg 13y ago
  Please let us know when you've scheduled a date for your well-planned, confidence-inspiring protest.

jivatmanx 13y ago

I think it would be more effective to begin organizing a primary challenge to Nancy Pelosi. Residents of San Francisco have the unique ability to send a message to the minority leader, and therefore, the entire democratic party. The leverage, or political return on effort, for challenging a house party leader is far greater than for any other elected official. (Senate leaders have far more constituents)

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
northwest 13y ago
Good idea, provided you're not saying it's an either-or.
rayiner 13y ago
Yes! Put your money where your mouth is and raise money to oust Pelosi. The tech community is the "moneyed interests" here. They should be able to at least give her a big scare.
- ihsw 13y ago
  The tech industry has been complicit in this, and I think how the Democrat party resonates with them can be summarized as such: > What you can control cannot hurt you. I think this explains why those in the tech industry either stand firmly and resolutely with the government (and firmly belonging to the Democrat party), or their political allegiance follows along Libertarian lines because such statements instill a strong sense of anxiety and trepidation.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    Are you saying the democratic party controls tech or the other way around? Neither is true. The tech industry is phenomenally impotent in political issues, and neither party cares enough about tech to want to control it. The tech industry is to the democratic party like the faithful wife who gets cheated on. Tech folks vote reliably democrat, or not at all, so there is zero reason to care about their interests.

zmanian 13y ago

Live Stream: http://youtu.be/vbMf9sc1NL0 http://youtu.be/vbMf9sc1NL0