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I ain't sure if that's directed at me, but assuming it is, CoffeeScript and Typescript and, heck, even asm.js are direct competitors to Dart. It's all transpil

I ain't sure if that's directed at me, but assuming it is, CoffeeScript and Typescript and, heck, even asm.js are direct competitors to Dart. It's all transpiled languages competing for mindshare. Dart isn't doing well on that field. There's nothing regarding fear, uncertainty, or doubt in that assertion.

mythz 13y ago
Was directed at the general FUD towards Dart, not your comment. That said nothing like Dart exists, which is a ground-up new implementation of a new structured web language to build and maintain high-performance complex web apps. There are many parts to Dart, like the Dart SDK which provides a set of well-written and consistent APIs, smoothing over the DOM and browser quirks that also introduces a new Future/Streams composable async model simplifying IO and handling events in js web apps. The dart2js component is what Dart shares with other transpiled languages like CoffeeScript, TypeScript and asm.js. Out of this only TypeScript shares the goal of a structured/toolable language for building complex web apps, which is essentially just an optionally-typed superset of JS that's forward-looking to features proposed by the ECMA standards committee. Since TypeScript is a tooling/transpiler that sits on top and is dependent on JS it will have a slower dev/edit/reload cycle since it always needs to compile before running, its tied to JS semantics so it wont be able to have the same level of advanced tree-shaking Dart can and as its performance is tied to JS VMs it wont be able to take advantage of DartVM "Snapshots" for instant start-up times or the 2x faster predictable runtime performance of the DartVM. Dart is also the only strategy that allows us to get a "clean-break" from JS. Personally I think it'd be a tragedy if in 10 years time everything still depends on and we can't innovate past JS, killing any hope being able to natively run other languages in browsers. I strongly believe in order to progress we need to re-invent, to tear things down, keep what's good and discard the warts and legacy, not build on top of it. Maybe it turns out Dart isn't it, but I sure hope something better succeeds past JS.
- louthy 13y ago
  > that also introduces a new Future/Streams composable async model simplifying IO and handling events in js web apps. Sounds like RxJS to me.
  - mythz 13y ago
    Which is tacked onto JS callbacks and not engrained into every IO operation like it is with Dart.
Ganymede 13y ago
No language really competes pre-release

mythz 13y ago

Was directed at the general FUD towards Dart, not your comment. That said nothing like Dart exists, which is a ground-up new implementation of a new structured web language to build and maintain high-performance complex web apps. There are many parts to Dart, like the Dart SDK which provides a set of well-written and consistent APIs, smoothing over the DOM and browser quirks that also introduces a new Future/Streams composable async model simplifying IO and handling events in js web apps. The dart2js component is what Dart shares with other transpiled languages like CoffeeScript, TypeScript and asm.js. Out of this only TypeScript shares the goal of a structured/toolable language for building complex web apps, which is essentially just an optionally-typed superset of JS that's forward-looking to features proposed by the ECMA standards committee. Since TypeScript is a tooling/transpiler that sits on top and is dependent on JS it will have a slower dev/edit/reload cycle since it always needs to compile before running, its tied to JS semantics so it wont be able to have the same level of advanced tree-shaking Dart can and as its performance is tied to JS VMs it wont be able to take advantage of DartVM "Snapshots" for instant start-up times or the 2x faster predictable runtime performance of the DartVM. Dart is also the only strategy that allows us to get a "clean-break" from JS. Personally I think it'd be a tragedy if in 10 years time everything still depends on and we can't innovate past JS, killing any hope being able to natively run other languages in browsers. I strongly believe in order to progress we need to re-invent, to tear things down, keep what's good and discard the warts and legacy, not build on top of it. Maybe it turns out Dart isn't it, but I sure hope something better succeeds past JS.

louthy 13y ago
> that also introduces a new Future/Streams composable async model simplifying IO and handling events in js web apps. Sounds like RxJS to me.
- mythz 13y ago
  Which is tacked onto JS callbacks and not engrained into every IO operation like it is with Dart.

Ganymede 13y ago

No language really competes pre-release