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I wrote this comment on ESR's site but it's in the moderation queue: Interesting article. I myself am Danish but living in Miami. I left about 20 years ago but
by pelle 17y ago
I wrote this comment on ESR's site but it's in the moderation queue:
Interesting article. I myself am Danish but living in Miami. I left about 20 years ago but was back in Copenhagen for a couple of years recently. I did see a big change in Danish, in particularly with the use of English.
In the 80’s it was not all that cool to talk English all the time. It was only a few of us in the hip hop community and programmers who got a way with it. This has changed, but not in the way you might think. I think even on the street someone would be thought of as a poser if he used nothing but English.
What Danes do, do is import English words and make them their own. A lot of this I think comes from the hip hop community which has gone mainstream in Denmark in the period I was away. My 2 favorite examples of English words that have become Danish is Slice and Fck. Slice was new to me when I returned to Denmark. It means a slice of pizza. In Danish you can leave of Pizza and you can’t use “slice” for anything else unless you’re talking about servers.
Fck has become such a common use in Denmark, that I don’t think people even realize that it isn’t Danish. It is used by just about everyone younger than 40 all the time, to such extent that Danes travelling to the English speaking countries routinely and unwittingly cause offence.
So my point about these words is that while they both come from English, they have now become absorbed with changed meaning into Danish. So when I’m in a 7/11 in Copenhagen saying “give mig et slajs” I’m not actually talking English, just modern street Danish.
This absorption of new words reminds me of when I lived in Panama, where words have been imported whole sale from Jamaican and American English to the local Spanish language. The word “Man” for example means “Person” and not “Male”, which caused me never ending confusion when I heard people talking about “la man” and I thought they were talking about some guy.
My theory about what has happened in Denmark is that it is an extremely egalitarian society. Elitist language snobs are frowned upon. There was also a period (say the 80s) where very few decent TV or movies where made in Denmark. So my generation who grew up then absorbed everything we could from American and English culture. The growth of Hip Hop in Denmark has I’m certain also had a huge influence. In the 80s though there were lots of Danish groups singing in English, now I think the majority sing/rap in Danish.
I’m very interested in these kinds of changes to culture all over the world. I wrote this article about how globalization doesn’t homogenize music and food, but rather create lots of interesting new micro fusions. It’s kind of related to this debate and uses Denmark, the Philippines and others as examples.
http://stakeventures.com/articles/2007/09/18/why-globalization-wont-make-everything-the-same http://stakeventures.com/articles/2007/09/18/why-globalizati...
- silvestrov 17y agoAnother example of word import in Danish: the word "shopping" (in Danish: "købe ind") is now used when shopping for fun stuff (girls/gays buying clothes) while the danish word is used when shopping for groceries. So "jeg skal shoppe" (I have to shop) is shopping for fun, while "jeg skal købe ind" means "I have to buy groceries".
- eru 17y agoSame in German.
- jmillikin 17y ago> [Fuck] has become such a common use in Denmark, that I don’t think people even realize that it isn’t Danish. It is used by just about everyone younger than 40 all the time, to such extent that Danes travelling to the English speaking countries routinely and unwittingly cause offence. This surprised me -- is "fuck" not considered rude in Denmark? Or do Danes use it among "foreigners" without realizing it means the same thing in other languages?
- silvestrov 17y agoboth. Older people refrain from using it, but for young people it's just an innocent filler word. We don't beep such words out on TV/Radio, and they can be said in primetime by guests without problems. And therefore it's easy for Danes when visiting USA/UK to say it without realizing that Americans/English people considers it rude.
- pelle 17y agoIt kind of shocked me when I came back to Denmark. Then it just amused me. It's funniest when people write it as "fåhk", which I'm seeing more and more. It is also probably the reason why DHH uses it so liberally in keynotes etc. It might have happened unwittingly of course he has made it his trademark now. 25% of the content of my favorite (only?) Danish startup podcasts http://thorborg.tv/ http://thorborg.tv/ consists of this word.