4 ms·

Germany ends spy pact with US and UK after Snowden

109 points by obtino 13y ago

northwest 13y ago
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6146770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6146770 But it's always very interesting to compare how different news outlets/countries sell the story differently.
runarb 13y ago
Well, spies should and do hide in the shadows. We will have to wait 10 years to see if this is the truth. And then we still can't be sure, NSA/CIA/Stasi/KGB/FSB/BFST/PST ( the whole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intelligence_agencies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intelligence_agencies list ) can have been better at preventing whistleblowers like Snowden so we never can know 100%. Better make the necessary preparation today.
coldcode 13y ago
Big deal, it's not really in use. If you really want to stick it to the US refuse to allow the TSA access to your passenger data. Refuse to give the IRS financial information. Toss out the entire US military from their bases. Then maybe I will think there is real outrage.
- MetaCosm 13y ago
  Tossing out US troops would be the strongest statement. When the US tried to reduce troop numbers in Germany, they had a fit. All about the economic impact losing all the US military spending in that region would cause. Turns out stationing 50,000+ troops in Germany is good for the local economy... if they tossed them out, it would be a massive demonstration of seriousness.
  - glasz 13y ago
    indeed. but merkel prefers bowing down, licking boots. like anybody else would do. looks like the thugs eisenhower tried to warn us about are wearing chocolate shoes.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    It's not local economies, it's subjecting their own tax base to their own military industrial complex as they have to ramp up.
- rtfeldman 13y ago
  "It's not really in use" could have been said of the Espionage Act until recently. We live in times where previously irrelevant measures become increasingly relevant whenever the word "terrorism" is invoked.
viraptor 13y ago
It seems that Germans are actually interested in privacy. I was really surprised to see a program on a very popular German TV channel last week where email/message encryption was explained using very simple diagrams, from the user's side. It wasn't a how-to - they didn't say "google gpg, click here, click there". But just seeing a 30+ minute report about public-key cryptography at a reasonable time (I think it was around 2100), on a national TV - that's a serious step in the right direction.
- Vivtek 13y ago
  Yes. There is a really strong reason why the Germans remember that privacy is important. We should listen to them.
ibejoeb 13y ago
Hah. Remember when the Germans installed rootkits just a blink ago? http://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2011/staatstrojaner http://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2011/staatstrojaner
- northwest 13y ago
  Meanwhile, in Switzerland, the progress of the "fight" against trojans to be installed by the government couldn't even keep up with the speed of a snake: http://buepf.ch/ http://buepf.ch/ (If you know people who live there, forward this petition!)
  - kirubakaran 13y ago
    A snail perhaps? Snakes move pretty fast.
    - northwest 13y ago
      Yes, SNAIL, thanks!
  - rasur 13y ago
    Disappointingly, the petition has only gained 4,500ish signatures since the last time it was on HN. Maybe this article will help..
ValG 13y ago
I'm a little confused about this article. From the article "Ending an agreement made in the pre-internet age gives the Germans a chance to show they're doing something, and at the same time the Americans know it's not going to hurt them." It's completely a symbolic gesture. It seems to me like the Germans are just playing a political game, hoping that (somehow) the people don't notice. Any German natives able to give insight into the general feeling among the population (preferably the whole population, not just 20 something start-up guys)?
- glasz 13y ago
  i am native german. feeling among the population: "give us soccer, beer and low oil prices! nsa? yeah, shit happens. i don't really care as long as nobody intrudes the fence around my house." of course, this is symbolic. i wouldn't even call it that. what our government is and has been doing since at least a decade is plain and simple treason. but it doesn't matter to the generation of 68. as long as they can watch tv. people here even read 1948 and are like 'sure. like today.' and go on with their lives and all the important crap they're doing.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
asperous 13y ago
Ending a pact and stopping data sharing are different things apparently: > "the decision would have no impact on current intelligence co-operation." > "Given the good relations between the intelligence agencies, they'll get the information they need anyway," ['A German official'] said.

109 points by obtino 13y ago

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6146770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6146770 But it's always very interesting to compare how different news outlets/countries sell the story differently.

runarb 13y ago

Well, spies should and do hide in the shadows. We will have to wait 10 years to see if this is the truth. And then we still can't be sure, NSA/CIA/Stasi/KGB/FSB/BFST/PST ( the whole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intelligence_agencies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intelligence_agencies list ) can have been better at preventing whistleblowers like Snowden so we never can know 100%. Better make the necessary preparation today.

coldcode 13y ago

Big deal, it's not really in use. If you really want to stick it to the US refuse to allow the TSA access to your passenger data. Refuse to give the IRS financial information. Toss out the entire US military from their bases. Then maybe I will think there is real outrage.

MetaCosm 13y ago
Tossing out US troops would be the strongest statement. When the US tried to reduce troop numbers in Germany, they had a fit. All about the economic impact losing all the US military spending in that region would cause. Turns out stationing 50,000+ troops in Germany is good for the local economy... if they tossed them out, it would be a massive demonstration of seriousness.
- glasz 13y ago
  indeed. but merkel prefers bowing down, licking boots. like anybody else would do. looks like the thugs eisenhower tried to warn us about are wearing chocolate shoes.
- rhizome 13y ago
  It's not local economies, it's subjecting their own tax base to their own military industrial complex as they have to ramp up.
rtfeldman 13y ago
"It's not really in use" could have been said of the Espionage Act until recently. We live in times where previously irrelevant measures become increasingly relevant whenever the word "terrorism" is invoked.

viraptor 13y ago

It seems that Germans are actually interested in privacy. I was really surprised to see a program on a very popular German TV channel last week where email/message encryption was explained using very simple diagrams, from the user's side. It wasn't a how-to - they didn't say "google gpg, click here, click there". But just seeing a 30+ minute report about public-key cryptography at a reasonable time (I think it was around 2100), on a national TV - that's a serious step in the right direction.

Vivtek 13y ago
Yes. There is a really strong reason why the Germans remember that privacy is important. We should listen to them.

ibejoeb 13y ago

Hah. Remember when the Germans installed rootkits just a blink ago? http://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2011/staatstrojaner http://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2011/staatstrojaner

northwest 13y ago
Meanwhile, in Switzerland, the progress of the "fight" against trojans to be installed by the government couldn't even keep up with the speed of a snake: http://buepf.ch/ http://buepf.ch/ (If you know people who live there, forward this petition!)
- kirubakaran 13y ago
  A snail perhaps? Snakes move pretty fast.
  - northwest 13y ago
    Yes, SNAIL, thanks!
- rasur 13y ago
  Disappointingly, the petition has only gained 4,500ish signatures since the last time it was on HN. Maybe this article will help..

ValG 13y ago

I'm a little confused about this article. From the article "Ending an agreement made in the pre-internet age gives the Germans a chance to show they're doing something, and at the same time the Americans know it's not going to hurt them." It's completely a symbolic gesture. It seems to me like the Germans are just playing a political game, hoping that (somehow) the people don't notice. Any German natives able to give insight into the general feeling among the population (preferably the whole population, not just 20 something start-up guys)?

glasz 13y ago
i am native german. feeling among the population: "give us soccer, beer and low oil prices! nsa? yeah, shit happens. i don't really care as long as nobody intrudes the fence around my house." of course, this is symbolic. i wouldn't even call it that. what our government is and has been doing since at least a decade is plain and simple treason. but it doesn't matter to the generation of 68. as long as they can watch tv. people here even read 1948 and are like 'sure. like today.' and go on with their lives and all the important crap they're doing.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

asperous 13y ago

Ending a pact and stopping data sharing are different things apparently: > "the decision would have no impact on current intelligence co-operation." > "Given the good relations between the intelligence agencies, they'll get the information they need anyway," ['A German official'] said.