6 ms·

Security disclosure about a Bluetooth toilet

98 points by tosbourn 13y ago

tinco 13y ago
.. so you can flush without touching the toilet? .. brilliant :P
- gambiting 13y ago
  But that means you have to touch your phone, probably before washing your hands first. Less than ideal.
  - beaumartinez 13y ago
    Less than ideal, but phones are a breeding ground for bacteria already.
    - DanBC 13y ago
      ...but hopefully not fecal bacteria.
      - Sunlis 13y ago
        I don't know, Angry Birds (and smart phones in general) ushered in a new era of bathroom-related hygienic disasters.
        gambiting 13y ago
        Yes, but you usually use the phone while seating on the toilet, then put it away, wipe, go and wash your hands. Therefore there is no contact with your phone between wiping and washing your hands. With this - you need to flush, so you will use your phone to flush, then wash your hands, and then touch your phone again - bam,all the bacteria are on your hands again.
      - ogig 13y ago
        http://healthland.time.com/2011/10/17/study-1-in-6-cell-phones-contaminated-with-fecal-matter/ http://healthland.time.com/2011/10/17/study-1-in-6-cell-phon...
        kaoD 13y ago
        > What’s on your smartphone? Probably fecal matter More like "probably not fecal matter" if it's 1 out of 6.
  - mavhc 13y ago
    Not with the Moto X, "OK Google Now, flush toilet"
    - ics 13y ago
      "Siri, spray shiri," in this case.
  - jkestner 13y ago
    Finally, a use for the Leap Motion.
  - fein 13y ago
    "OK Glass, flush!"
  - sneak 13y ago
    It was already in my hand anyway.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > But that means you have to touch your phone, probably before washing your hands first. If you can one-hand your phone, and do the other task with one hand, this isn't a problem.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
supermatt 13y ago
Although not mentioned in the advisory, this particular model also allows you to play sounds through the toilets internal speaker. Any exploit should surely consist of the lid flapping open and closed while the toilet whispers to you, beckoning you to come closer, and finally squirting you in the eye with the bidet.
- smacktoward 13y ago
  "Didn't your parents tell you never to listen to toilets?"
unimpressive 13y ago
According to this[0] the flush volume of this toilet is 5 liters. If it takes two minutes to flush and refill then the amount of water you could waste in an hour is: 30 * 5 = 150L If a family is away on vacation, you could theoretically flush for days. 24 * 150 = 3600L per day In Seattle the water costs about 4.5 cents per cubic foot.[1] (If it costs 4.50 dollars for one CCF (which is 100 cubic feet) then I move the decimal place over two times.) According to this[2] "1 Liter = 0.0353146667 Cubic Foot" If that's the case then at 3600L per day you can flush 127.1328001 Cubic Feet of water. 127.1328001 * 4.5 = 572.0976005 cents Round down to 572, divide by one hundred: You can grief somebody for $5.72 a day in Seattle with this exploit. If you were to constantly flush all year it would cost you: $5.72 * 365 = $2087.8 One way you could exploit this is if you obsessively watched out for the neighbors to see when they came and went and flushed when they aren't home. [0]: http://www.inax-usa.com/download/catalog/pdf/0008-2.pdf http://www.inax-usa.com/download/catalog/pdf/0008-2.pdf (Page 18, flushing volume) [1]: http://www.seattle.gov/util/MyServices/Rates/WaterRates/ResidentialRates/index.htm http://www.seattle.gov/util/MyServices/Rates/WaterRates/Resi... [2]: http://www.asknumbers.com/LiterToCubicFeet.aspx http://www.asknumbers.com/LiterToCubicFeet.aspx
- rohansingh 13y ago
  I was always under the impression that our water in Seattle is cheaper than in most places? Probably the greatest monetary cost you could cause the owner to incur is if they thought the toilet was faulty in some way due to the continuous flushing and had to call in a plumber. Also I can't believe I'm seriously having a discussion about toilets on HN. Heh.
  - larcher 13y ago
    In Austin I pay about 1.3 cents/gallon, or 10.4 cents/cubic foot of water, $10.40/CCF. This is including waste water service, which is nearly twice as much as water service (but based on the same amount of water). However, this is based on my own bill (total billed amount divided by total water used) -- a bit tricky since there are tiers and surcharges. Also, we're under water restrictions due to the drought - water the lawn once a week, no washing your car in the driveway, etc.
benjamincburns 13y ago
I'm going to go ahead and file this away as an example of how needless complexity can bite you in the ass. In this case, almost literally.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
chris_wot 13y ago
Toilets are awesome. We rarely talk about them (or sewers), but they are a VERY important part of disease control. Toilets save lives, we just don't realise it.
- alphakappa 13y ago
  And electronic bidets are the most awesome of toilets. Once you get used to them (and they are fairly affordable as long as you don't go for Toto), using paper feels so... primitive.
  - cynwoody 13y ago
    Almost eleven years ago, one Stana Claus contributed† the following factoid to history: Just so you know, some varieties of corn have a dark reddish cob while others have more of a whitish colored cob. When I was but a wee child I was told by my beloved grandfather that the proper outhouse technique required "two reds and a white". The red cobs (apparently more readily available, at least in that locale) were used for bulk removal, and the white was used to determine if the job was sufficiently done. Surely, my grandfather wouldn't have lied to a small impressionable child about such a thing! †http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2363912&postcount=13 http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2363912&p...
donutz 13y ago
Here's the app that goes along with the toilet: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.lixil.remotesatis201210&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.lixil.re... At least the poop journal aspects shouldn't be compromised even if your toilet is :)

98 points by tosbourn 13y ago

tinco 13y ago

.. so you can flush without touching the toilet? .. brilliant :P

gambiting 13y ago
But that means you have to touch your phone, probably before washing your hands first. Less than ideal.
- beaumartinez 13y ago
  Less than ideal, but phones are a breeding ground for bacteria already.
  - DanBC 13y ago
    ...but hopefully not fecal bacteria.
    - Sunlis 13y ago
      I don't know, Angry Birds (and smart phones in general) ushered in a new era of bathroom-related hygienic disasters.
      - gambiting 13y ago
        Yes, but you usually use the phone while seating on the toilet, then put it away, wipe, go and wash your hands. Therefore there is no contact with your phone between wiping and washing your hands. With this - you need to flush, so you will use your phone to flush, then wash your hands, and then touch your phone again - bam,all the bacteria are on your hands again.
    - ogig 13y ago
      http://healthland.time.com/2011/10/17/study-1-in-6-cell-phones-contaminated-with-fecal-matter/ http://healthland.time.com/2011/10/17/study-1-in-6-cell-phon...
      - kaoD 13y ago
        > What’s on your smartphone? Probably fecal matter More like "probably not fecal matter" if it's 1 out of 6.
- mavhc 13y ago
  Not with the Moto X, "OK Google Now, flush toilet"
  - ics 13y ago
    "Siri, spray shiri," in this case.
- jkestner 13y ago
  Finally, a use for the Leap Motion.
- fein 13y ago
  "OK Glass, flush!"
- sneak 13y ago
  It was already in my hand anyway.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > But that means you have to touch your phone, probably before washing your hands first. If you can one-hand your phone, and do the other task with one hand, this isn't a problem.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

supermatt 13y ago

Although not mentioned in the advisory, this particular model also allows you to play sounds through the toilets internal speaker. Any exploit should surely consist of the lid flapping open and closed while the toilet whispers to you, beckoning you to come closer, and finally squirting you in the eye with the bidet.

smacktoward 13y ago
"Didn't your parents tell you never to listen to toilets?"

unimpressive 13y ago

According to this[0] the flush volume of this toilet is 5 liters. If it takes two minutes to flush and refill then the amount of water you could waste in an hour is: 30 * 5 = 150L If a family is away on vacation, you could theoretically flush for days. 24 * 150 = 3600L per day In Seattle the water costs about 4.5 cents per cubic foot.[1] (If it costs 4.50 dollars for one CCF (which is 100 cubic feet) then I move the decimal place over two times.) According to this[2] "1 Liter = 0.0353146667 Cubic Foot" If that's the case then at 3600L per day you can flush 127.1328001 Cubic Feet of water. 127.1328001 * 4.5 = 572.0976005 cents Round down to 572, divide by one hundred: You can grief somebody for $5.72 a day in Seattle with this exploit. If you were to constantly flush all year it would cost you: $5.72 * 365 = $2087.8 One way you could exploit this is if you obsessively watched out for the neighbors to see when they came and went and flushed when they aren't home. [0]: http://www.inax-usa.com/download/catalog/pdf/0008-2.pdf http://www.inax-usa.com/download/catalog/pdf/0008-2.pdf (Page 18, flushing volume) [1]: http://www.seattle.gov/util/MyServices/Rates/WaterRates/ResidentialRates/index.htm http://www.seattle.gov/util/MyServices/Rates/WaterRates/Resi... [2]: http://www.asknumbers.com/LiterToCubicFeet.aspx http://www.asknumbers.com/LiterToCubicFeet.aspx

rohansingh 13y ago
I was always under the impression that our water in Seattle is cheaper than in most places? Probably the greatest monetary cost you could cause the owner to incur is if they thought the toilet was faulty in some way due to the continuous flushing and had to call in a plumber. Also I can't believe I'm seriously having a discussion about toilets on HN. Heh.
- larcher 13y ago
  In Austin I pay about 1.3 cents/gallon, or 10.4 cents/cubic foot of water, $10.40/CCF. This is including waste water service, which is nearly twice as much as water service (but based on the same amount of water). However, this is based on my own bill (total billed amount divided by total water used) -- a bit tricky since there are tiers and surcharges. Also, we're under water restrictions due to the drought - water the lawn once a week, no washing your car in the driveway, etc.

benjamincburns 13y ago

I'm going to go ahead and file this away as an example of how needless complexity can bite you in the ass. In this case, almost literally.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

chris_wot 13y ago

Toilets are awesome. We rarely talk about them (or sewers), but they are a VERY important part of disease control. Toilets save lives, we just don't realise it.

alphakappa 13y ago
And electronic bidets are the most awesome of toilets. Once you get used to them (and they are fairly affordable as long as you don't go for Toto), using paper feels so... primitive.
- cynwoody 13y ago
  Almost eleven years ago, one Stana Claus contributed† the following factoid to history: Just so you know, some varieties of corn have a dark reddish cob while others have more of a whitish colored cob. When I was but a wee child I was told by my beloved grandfather that the proper outhouse technique required "two reds and a white". The red cobs (apparently more readily available, at least in that locale) were used for bulk removal, and the white was used to determine if the job was sufficiently done. Surely, my grandfather wouldn't have lied to a small impressionable child about such a thing! †http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2363912&postcount=13 http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2363912&p...

donutz 13y ago

Here's the app that goes along with the toilet: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.lixil.remotesatis201210&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.lixil.re... At least the poop journal aspects shouldn't be compromised even if your toilet is :)