4 ms·

1) Nothing is free. We pay the most taxes in the world. 2) We don't accept based on academic merit. We accept based on government unemployment programs. Edit:

1) Nothing is free. We pay the most taxes in the world. 2) We don't accept based on academic merit. We accept based on government unemployment programs. Edit: Spello

jpttsn 13y ago
> We don't accept based on academic merit. We accept based on government unemployment programs That's overly pessimistic. Compared to most of the world, the fact that the size of your wallet doesn't directly determine which schools we can go to is remarkable.
- fetbaffe 13y ago
  But now you are saying that has do with the size of your wallet (or rather lack of), which is true, but that does not mean we are basing it on academic merit. That is jumping to conclusions and assumptions. What is the academic merits to become a teacher today? Zero? Edit: Added extra paragraph.
  - jpttsn 13y ago
    > That is jumping to conclusions and assumptions. Sure. I didn't arrive at this through reasoning, it's a contingency. I hope I didn't leave anything non-obvious out: * In most places, you have to afford the school and you need the grades/SAT scores (academic merit). * In Sweden, you don't need to afford the school: you only need the grades/SAT scores (academic merit).
    - fetbaffe 13y ago
      But I'm saying that is not based on academic merit when anyone can attend.
      - lmm 13y ago
        Not anyone can - only those who can get the grades. And while grades are an imperfect measure of academic merit they're the best one we have.
        fetbaffe 13y ago
        For a long time we have had a public policy that anyone can go to higher education if they want to and in combination with different labor programs that pushes unemployed and under skilled to universities, that leads to undermining academic merits to a point where its not left. And that we granted every small education institution with the status of university. So to sum up: the goal of "free" education is to make higher education available for more people. This will lead to lowering of standards of already existing programs because more will attend (normal distribution of skill) and in the universities self interest a majority will pass because universities is paid per graduated student. And with a gradual lowering of standards this opens up for unqualified students to attend, especially in combination with government programs. Ergo academic merits does not matter. In Swedish Almost anyone can be a teacher http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/nastan-vem-som-helst-kan-bli-larare/ http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/nastan-vem-som-helst-kan-bl... This is now norm on many programs at the Swedish universities.
        jpttsn 13y ago
        I gather you're unhappy about the falling demand for a degree in teaching, but the whole argument you're describing is politicised and unsupported. The article suggests there's low demand for a degree in teaching; extending that to "academic merits does not matter" is a crazy stretch. This link shows statistics for people accepted into higher education for this fall semester: http://statistik.vhs.se http://statistik.vhs.se Both in the design of the system and in its actual results, it's clear that academic merit matters more than any other factor.
        fetbaffe 13y ago
        That link just shows academic merits relative to other students, not absolute academic merits. Politicized is the one that accepts the reality of politics, I don't because I look at result not intent.

1) Nothing is free. We pay the most taxes in the world. 2) We don't accept based on academic merit. We accept based on government unemployment programs. Edit: Spello

jpttsn 13y ago

> We don't accept based on academic merit. We accept based on government unemployment programs That's overly pessimistic. Compared to most of the world, the fact that the size of your wallet doesn't directly determine which schools we can go to is remarkable.

fetbaffe 13y ago
But now you are saying that has do with the size of your wallet (or rather lack of), which is true, but that does not mean we are basing it on academic merit. That is jumping to conclusions and assumptions. What is the academic merits to become a teacher today? Zero? Edit: Added extra paragraph.
- jpttsn 13y ago
  > That is jumping to conclusions and assumptions. Sure. I didn't arrive at this through reasoning, it's a contingency. I hope I didn't leave anything non-obvious out: * In most places, you have to afford the school and you need the grades/SAT scores (academic merit). * In Sweden, you don't need to afford the school: you only need the grades/SAT scores (academic merit).
  - fetbaffe 13y ago
    But I'm saying that is not based on academic merit when anyone can attend.
    - lmm 13y ago
      Not anyone can - only those who can get the grades. And while grades are an imperfect measure of academic merit they're the best one we have.
      - fetbaffe 13y ago
        For a long time we have had a public policy that anyone can go to higher education if they want to and in combination with different labor programs that pushes unemployed and under skilled to universities, that leads to undermining academic merits to a point where its not left. And that we granted every small education institution with the status of university. So to sum up: the goal of "free" education is to make higher education available for more people. This will lead to lowering of standards of already existing programs because more will attend (normal distribution of skill) and in the universities self interest a majority will pass because universities is paid per graduated student. And with a gradual lowering of standards this opens up for unqualified students to attend, especially in combination with government programs. Ergo academic merits does not matter. In Swedish Almost anyone can be a teacher http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/nastan-vem-som-helst-kan-bli-larare/ http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/nastan-vem-som-helst-kan-bl... This is now norm on many programs at the Swedish universities.
        jpttsn 13y ago
        I gather you're unhappy about the falling demand for a degree in teaching, but the whole argument you're describing is politicised and unsupported. The article suggests there's low demand for a degree in teaching; extending that to "academic merits does not matter" is a crazy stretch. This link shows statistics for people accepted into higher education for this fall semester: http://statistik.vhs.se http://statistik.vhs.se Both in the design of the system and in its actual results, it's clear that academic merit matters more than any other factor.
        fetbaffe 13y ago
        That link just shows academic merits relative to other students, not absolute academic merits. Politicized is the one that accepts the reality of politics, I don't because I look at result not intent.