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That's how it works for alcohol in several countries, and while I don't think any of them have managed to show any actual benefits from doing it that way, it's

That's how it works for alcohol in several countries, and while I don't think any of them have managed to show any actual benefits from doing it that way, it's also not a total disaster.

wahnfrieden 13y ago
It's awful for beer, for one example. It means that breweries can only produce things for mass markets. Governments demand a base amount of each single item so that they can create and meet demands. They won't take special, small-batch items, because they're looking to stock shelves all over. This drastically alters what breweries are able to experiment with (if at all). If you view marijuana as a commodity item, then maybe government sale makes sense. You could view ale the same way, but it'd be an unfortunately shortsighted judgment.
- dzhiurgis 13y ago
  Many people love nice ales, wines or whiskeys, but the bottom line is - all of them are meant to intoxicate you. Therefore, I would be a bit dubious whether it is really ethical to make something seem less dangerous. It's just like selling chocolate cigarettes to children, surely it builds some sort of mental image of cigarettes being good.
  - phaemon 13y ago
    The major difference between selling chocolate cigarettes to children and selling me an interesting tasting ale, is that I am not a child. I am more capable than you are of deciding what is best for me.
  - wahnfrieden 13y ago
    Curious why you think the only or primary reason for brewing tasty ale is to deceive? There's a lot wrong with this but for one, I'm not talking about Budweiser coming out with a smoother lighter tasting drink. Many craft ales have such strong flavor (without correlation to strong abv necessarily) that make it difficult to drink faster than sipping and in large quantity, unlike the macrobrews that are intended to go down easily with minimal flavor, more for "drunking" than "drinking", an important distinction.
- dagw 13y ago
  They won't take special, small-batch items Don't know about how it works in general, but that definitely isn't true in Sweden. Individual stores must carry a certain 'standard' stock, but beyond that they are free to stock whatever products they want in, and it's not uncommon to see small orders of only a half dozen bottles of something obscure. And even if your local store doesn't stock some particular thing you want, they will always be happy to try to order a couple of bottles for you.
  - wahnfrieden 13y ago
    Ah so is it partially privatized then? I was using Canada as an example, though the particulars vary by region there. Fortunately they are moving more and more toward privatized liquor sales, giving breweries more freedom.
    - dagw 13y ago
      Alcohol sale to consumers is 100% run by the government with strict guidelines and pricing controls and with no sign of privatization in sight. However each store has a certain amount of autonomy as to what they carry. Alcohol distribution to the stores however is largely privatized. So anybody is free to set up a company that imports and distributes alcoholic beverages. But they can only sell to bars, restaurants or the government run alcohol stores.
dzhiurgis 13y ago
Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland and apparently some parts of Canada have government owned shops. I guess it's all to inflate the price to the ridicule in an attempt to reduce the consumption. Can't blame them, they do indeed drink a lot.
- dagw 13y ago
  Speaking only for Sweden, it's not simply that they raise prices, it's more that they flatten them. So a $10 bottle of Vodka will cost you $35, but a $120 bottle of whisky might cost you $80. For example I was very surprised when I was in England a few years ago and found that certain British ales I enjoy where cheaper in the Swedish government monopoly shop than in the English supermarket.

That's how it works for alcohol in several countries, and while I don't think any of them have managed to show any actual benefits from doing it that way, it's also not a total disaster.

wahnfrieden 13y ago

It's awful for beer, for one example. It means that breweries can only produce things for mass markets. Governments demand a base amount of each single item so that they can create and meet demands. They won't take special, small-batch items, because they're looking to stock shelves all over. This drastically alters what breweries are able to experiment with (if at all). If you view marijuana as a commodity item, then maybe government sale makes sense. You could view ale the same way, but it'd be an unfortunately shortsighted judgment.

dzhiurgis 13y ago
Many people love nice ales, wines or whiskeys, but the bottom line is - all of them are meant to intoxicate you. Therefore, I would be a bit dubious whether it is really ethical to make something seem less dangerous. It's just like selling chocolate cigarettes to children, surely it builds some sort of mental image of cigarettes being good.
- phaemon 13y ago
  The major difference between selling chocolate cigarettes to children and selling me an interesting tasting ale, is that I am not a child. I am more capable than you are of deciding what is best for me.
- wahnfrieden 13y ago
  Curious why you think the only or primary reason for brewing tasty ale is to deceive? There's a lot wrong with this but for one, I'm not talking about Budweiser coming out with a smoother lighter tasting drink. Many craft ales have such strong flavor (without correlation to strong abv necessarily) that make it difficult to drink faster than sipping and in large quantity, unlike the macrobrews that are intended to go down easily with minimal flavor, more for "drunking" than "drinking", an important distinction.
dagw 13y ago
They won't take special, small-batch items Don't know about how it works in general, but that definitely isn't true in Sweden. Individual stores must carry a certain 'standard' stock, but beyond that they are free to stock whatever products they want in, and it's not uncommon to see small orders of only a half dozen bottles of something obscure. And even if your local store doesn't stock some particular thing you want, they will always be happy to try to order a couple of bottles for you.
- wahnfrieden 13y ago
  Ah so is it partially privatized then? I was using Canada as an example, though the particulars vary by region there. Fortunately they are moving more and more toward privatized liquor sales, giving breweries more freedom.
  - dagw 13y ago
    Alcohol sale to consumers is 100% run by the government with strict guidelines and pricing controls and with no sign of privatization in sight. However each store has a certain amount of autonomy as to what they carry. Alcohol distribution to the stores however is largely privatized. So anybody is free to set up a company that imports and distributes alcoholic beverages. But they can only sell to bars, restaurants or the government run alcohol stores.

dzhiurgis 13y ago

Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland and apparently some parts of Canada have government owned shops. I guess it's all to inflate the price to the ridicule in an attempt to reduce the consumption. Can't blame them, they do indeed drink a lot.

dagw 13y ago
Speaking only for Sweden, it's not simply that they raise prices, it's more that they flatten them. So a $10 bottle of Vodka will cost you $35, but a $120 bottle of whisky might cost you $80. For example I was very surprised when I was in England a few years ago and found that certain British ales I enjoy where cheaper in the Swedish government monopoly shop than in the English supermarket.