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There is only one solution to this. It is fairly low tech, and it's not a popular one around here. Get involved in politics. It's tempting to believe you can

by DanI-S 13y ago

There is only one solution to this. It is fairly low tech, and it's not a popular one around here. Get involved in politics. It's tempting to believe you can enact change from your desk chair, writing smart code and angry tweets to outwit the spies and inform the people. Well, we're not there just yet. The people making the decisions that lead to these events - the most powerful people in the world - grew up in an age where, to produce change, you would get out into the streets and stir things up. Step out of your comfort zone, address the public and bring them to your side. Many people don't see the harm in a surveillance state. To prevent one, you must show the public why it is a bad thing and how they can speak out. Democracy only works when your views are heard by those with the power to bring change. Not the background rumble of a subjugated people, but the articulate demands of an informed electorate with high-profile spokespeople and popular support.

marssaxman 13y ago
Even then it doesn't really seem to work.
- loteck 13y ago
  On the contrary, it seems to be working really well for the people who are using their political involvement to enact policies that many in this thread are complaining about.
  - seabee 13y ago
    Those policies have a financial benefit for certain parties. Nobody gets rich from maintaining civil liberties. Can you think of a strong enough incentive to get this done?
Houshalter 13y ago
I don't think most people care honestly, and a few protests is not anywhere near enough to convince them. Even if you succeed, all it takes is another war/red scare/terrorist attack/whatever, to get people support whatever it takes to protect them from "the enemy".
- DanI-S 13y ago
  A few protests probably won't, but there are more tools than that: - Grassroots community organization (outreach via political, workers' and church groups) - Fundraising and lobbying (PG, would you donate to an anti-surveillance group?) - High profile/celebrity spokespeople - Smart media coverage - Content production (documentary films, etc) - Dealmaking amongst political organizations - All the other tools in a politician's playbook There are horrendously unpopular ideas that make it into Washington on the back of this sort of effort. There is a game, the opposition is good at it, and refusing to play doesn't help anyone.
  - diydsp 13y ago
    Absolutely. Many key positions in police departments are filled through election. They may not seem important, but the folks we choose now to police our podunk towns go on to larger scale law enforcement. We should scrutinize the people who run for police chief. Heck, I just found this: http://www.policeelections.com/ http://www.policeelections.com/
  - Houshalter 13y ago
    I don't think it's actually possible to change anything, and even if it is, the time and effort required make it not worth it. I'm not sure if there's any evidence that any of those things have any effect at all on the average voter, let alone politicians. This is the prime moment. Society is currently used to privacy and it's just been revealed that the government has been invading it at an unprecedented level. And nothing happened. Imagine what it will be like when the news dies out and this becomes the norm. The government rarely if ever releases powers once it gets them. Even if it did, all it takes is one minor crisis to bring it all back in the name of fighting the enemy.
bendoernberg 13y ago
If only there was some sort of nationwide grassroots group organizing protests, meetings with Congress and other political action on these issues... http://1984Day.com http://1984Day.com
JoshTriplett 13y ago
Politics is a life-consuming activity. It's not one you can make a significant difference in by taking a few minutes or hours every once in a while. (Sure, you can send a letter or call a relevant elected official, and by all means do so, but that's not the level of "get involved in politics" that will actually get non-trivial things changed unless there's already a strong push to do so, led by people who have more time.) Unless you're prepared to spend your life tilting at your chosen windmills, "get involved in politics" is not really an option.
- DanI-S 13y ago
  This is patently untrue. Political progress inherently involves the combined minor effort of numerous people. Campaign volunteers regularly do everything from making a few cold-calls every night to fixing bugs in the web apps that are used to manage the campaign. You're right that getting things started is non-trivial, but as other commenters have pointed out there are a fair number of organizations already driving for change who would appreciate "a few minutes or hours every once in a while". Here are a few: http://1984day.com/ http://1984day.com/ https://www.eff.org/ https://www.eff.org/ http://www.restorethefourth.net/ http://www.restorethefourth.net/ Please add more if you know any!
  - JoshTriplett 13y ago
    > You're right that getting things started is non-trivial, but as other commenters have pointed out there are a fair number of organizations already driving for change who would appreciate "a few minutes or hours every once in a while". That's exactly the type of thing I meant when I said "Sure, you can send a letter or call an elected official". On a smaller scale, you can also vote; worth mentioning because a shockingly high number of people don't. However, all of those actions only add momentum to efforts started by others.

by DanI-S 13y ago

marssaxman 13y ago

Even then it doesn't really seem to work.

loteck 13y ago
On the contrary, it seems to be working really well for the people who are using their political involvement to enact policies that many in this thread are complaining about.
- seabee 13y ago
  Those policies have a financial benefit for certain parties. Nobody gets rich from maintaining civil liberties. Can you think of a strong enough incentive to get this done?

Houshalter 13y ago

I don't think most people care honestly, and a few protests is not anywhere near enough to convince them. Even if you succeed, all it takes is another war/red scare/terrorist attack/whatever, to get people support whatever it takes to protect them from "the enemy".

DanI-S 13y ago
A few protests probably won't, but there are more tools than that: - Grassroots community organization (outreach via political, workers' and church groups) - Fundraising and lobbying (PG, would you donate to an anti-surveillance group?) - High profile/celebrity spokespeople - Smart media coverage - Content production (documentary films, etc) - Dealmaking amongst political organizations - All the other tools in a politician's playbook There are horrendously unpopular ideas that make it into Washington on the back of this sort of effort. There is a game, the opposition is good at it, and refusing to play doesn't help anyone.
- diydsp 13y ago
  Absolutely. Many key positions in police departments are filled through election. They may not seem important, but the folks we choose now to police our podunk towns go on to larger scale law enforcement. We should scrutinize the people who run for police chief. Heck, I just found this: http://www.policeelections.com/ http://www.policeelections.com/
- Houshalter 13y ago
  I don't think it's actually possible to change anything, and even if it is, the time and effort required make it not worth it. I'm not sure if there's any evidence that any of those things have any effect at all on the average voter, let alone politicians. This is the prime moment. Society is currently used to privacy and it's just been revealed that the government has been invading it at an unprecedented level. And nothing happened. Imagine what it will be like when the news dies out and this becomes the norm. The government rarely if ever releases powers once it gets them. Even if it did, all it takes is one minor crisis to bring it all back in the name of fighting the enemy.

bendoernberg 13y ago

If only there was some sort of nationwide grassroots group organizing protests, meetings with Congress and other political action on these issues... http://1984Day.com http://1984Day.com

JoshTriplett 13y ago

Politics is a life-consuming activity. It's not one you can make a significant difference in by taking a few minutes or hours every once in a while. (Sure, you can send a letter or call a relevant elected official, and by all means do so, but that's not the level of "get involved in politics" that will actually get non-trivial things changed unless there's already a strong push to do so, led by people who have more time.) Unless you're prepared to spend your life tilting at your chosen windmills, "get involved in politics" is not really an option.

DanI-S 13y ago
This is patently untrue. Political progress inherently involves the combined minor effort of numerous people. Campaign volunteers regularly do everything from making a few cold-calls every night to fixing bugs in the web apps that are used to manage the campaign. You're right that getting things started is non-trivial, but as other commenters have pointed out there are a fair number of organizations already driving for change who would appreciate "a few minutes or hours every once in a while". Here are a few: http://1984day.com/ http://1984day.com/ https://www.eff.org/ https://www.eff.org/ http://www.restorethefourth.net/ http://www.restorethefourth.net/ Please add more if you know any!
- JoshTriplett 13y ago
  > You're right that getting things started is non-trivial, but as other commenters have pointed out there are a fair number of organizations already driving for change who would appreciate "a few minutes or hours every once in a while". That's exactly the type of thing I meant when I said "Sure, you can send a letter or call an elected official". On a smaller scale, you can also vote; worth mentioning because a shockingly high number of people don't. However, all of those actions only add momentum to efforts started by others.