5 ms·

What artifice? Edward Snowden has removed the need for the government to pretend that kind of thing isn't done.

tptacek 13y ago
No, he didn't. That's an Internet meme, not a revealed truth. The USG may very well be abusing SIGINT to profile the whole US population, but it is not true that they're doing that openly.
- ianterrell 13y ago
  Oh, "internet memes," such pesky things! Why, every time there's a new Chuck Norris joke there are congressional hearings and amendments being debated! Such trouble! And remember that last time someone posted a cute cat video, and congresspeople made statements left and right (some of them even validating what the cat video said)? My my, what trouble those "internet memes" get us into.
  - d23 13y ago
    You sure did a lot there to avoid refuting his point (and avoid saying anything substantial, I might add). His point is that the actual abuse hasn't been documented, and they surely wouldn't do it in such a silly way as this article suggests if they were abusing it in this manner.
    - ianterrell 13y ago
      I was annoyed at the condescension of "internet meme", and was commenting on that. When the clear potential for abuse has been thoroughly documented, getting nitpicky on actual abuse seems like a waste of time. Of course, were I to get nitpicky, I'd say there is documented evidence of abuse (with NYTimes reporting going back years): http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130731/16193324027/nsa-boss-insists-that-analysts-cant-abuse-surveillance-systems-forgets-to-mention-that-they-have.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130731/16193324027/nsa-bo... -- EDIT: I do believe there's a difference between the potential for abuse and actual abuse. But I further believe the potential for abuse from global surveillance is so significant that even the potential is a dire problem in its own right. I was a bit too flippant about that distinction above.
- reedlaw 13y ago
  Didn't the NSA just admit the existence of XKEYSCORE in a press release? [1] They pretty much verified much of what the Guardian had reported, while denying widespread, unchecked analyst access to data. And this blog post reveals a "foreignness factor" which would justify the search. 1. http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/press_room/2013/30_July_2013.shtml http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/press_room/2013/30_July_2013....

No, he didn't. That's an Internet meme, not a revealed truth. The USG may very well be abusing SIGINT to profile the whole US population, but it is not true that they're doing that openly.

ianterrell 13y ago
Oh, "internet memes," such pesky things! Why, every time there's a new Chuck Norris joke there are congressional hearings and amendments being debated! Such trouble! And remember that last time someone posted a cute cat video, and congresspeople made statements left and right (some of them even validating what the cat video said)? My my, what trouble those "internet memes" get us into.
- d23 13y ago
  You sure did a lot there to avoid refuting his point (and avoid saying anything substantial, I might add). His point is that the actual abuse hasn't been documented, and they surely wouldn't do it in such a silly way as this article suggests if they were abusing it in this manner.
  - ianterrell 13y ago
    I was annoyed at the condescension of "internet meme", and was commenting on that. When the clear potential for abuse has been thoroughly documented, getting nitpicky on actual abuse seems like a waste of time. Of course, were I to get nitpicky, I'd say there is documented evidence of abuse (with NYTimes reporting going back years): http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130731/16193324027/nsa-boss-insists-that-analysts-cant-abuse-surveillance-systems-forgets-to-mention-that-they-have.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130731/16193324027/nsa-bo... -- EDIT: I do believe there's a difference between the potential for abuse and actual abuse. But I further believe the potential for abuse from global surveillance is so significant that even the potential is a dire problem in its own right. I was a bit too flippant about that distinction above.
reedlaw 13y ago
Didn't the NSA just admit the existence of XKEYSCORE in a press release? [1] They pretty much verified much of what the Guardian had reported, while denying widespread, unchecked analyst access to data. And this blog post reveals a "foreignness factor" which would justify the search. 1. http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/press_room/2013/30_July_2013.shtml http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/press_room/2013/30_July_2013....