5 ms·

Chinese scalpers booking up all Genius Bar appointments and selling online

56 points by jack-r-abbit 13y ago

jack-r-abbit 13y ago
Brilliant! Is this actually illegal? I don't own any Apple products and have never booked a Genius Bar appointment so I don't know the terms of that booking. Maybe there is something in the fine print that your appointment is non-transferable? I wish the article went into more details about if this is illegal or just frowned upon. My gut tells me it is a loop hole that Apple will either change... or not care about. :)
- archgoon 13y ago
  Apple clearly does not wish to make money off Genius Bar appointments; if they did, they'd charge a fee. They're providing it as a service to their customers to improve their experience. This is akin to taking food from a soup kitchen and reselling it at the market rate. Nothing 'brilliant' about it.
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    If you can figure out how to take food from a soup kitchen, sell it at the market rate, and make a profit, you're brilliant.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Stand in front of the soup kitchen with a bat, declare the kitchen to be "yours", and demand people pay you tribute for admission. That doesn't make you a genius, just an asshole.
      - chrischen 13y ago
        That would make you arrested.
        jlgreco 13y ago
        In an ideal world, yes. Homeless people are frequently preyed upon though, particularly in less developed parts of the world. At a much different scale, consider warlords that sell intercepted donated food to the people it was meant to go to for free. They aren't geniuses, just massive assholes.
    - humblepie 13y ago
      This is the kind of thinking that ruins good things for everybody.
    - mynameishere 13y ago
      There you go. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/isle_take_that_welfare_scam_VBsTspIxia2GA9o2oS505L http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/isle_take_that_welfare_sc... No, it's not a soup kitchen. The point's the same. It's just people acting as parasites. Nothing brilliant about it.
  - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    I would not put them in the same bucket. I would put the Genius Bar thing into the same bucket as those Task Rabbit people getting paid to stand in line so someone else can show up last minute for the latest iGadget. I seem to recall people having mostly favorable thoughts about that idea. Taking food from the homeless is just jackassery.
- freehunter 13y ago
  I'm just going based off US law and not Chinese law (since I don't know Chinese law), but I don't see why it should be illegal. It might be against Apple's TOS, but take ticket scalping for example. In the US, there's no federal law against it, and it's only against the law in a handful of states. Even if the TOS said you couldn't do this, it wouldn't make it illegal (in the US). The TOS is not law, and the only repercussions would be civil.
  - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    That was my thought too. Simply exploiting a loophole of sorts. It sounds like once a booking is made, there is a way to go in and edit your info. Still curious if this a TOS violation or not.
    - Shivetya 13y ago
      well per replies on the original site, restrict access to those who an Apple ID and associated CC info on file. The only issue I see with that solution is, is the Genius Bar also there so advise people on which apple products to buy, hence new customers?
      - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
        Those replies simply give ideas on how Apple could prevent it if they wanted to. But that doesn't mean it violates the TOS currently. If it is not in the TOS right now, adding it would be one possible way to prevent it without causing issues for new customers.
- bradleyland 13y ago
  It needn't be illegal to be disallowed. Apple provides this service at will, and can set the terms in which you use it. There are, of course, legal boundaries within which every company must operate, but I'm not familiar with Chinese consumer protection law, so I have no idea if this is inside or outside the law. Also, it's not that brilliant, IMO. It is not unusual for secondary markets to spring up when the commodity is fungible and there is a supply constraint. See also: scalping sporting event and concert tickets; a practice that is also seen as a shiesty thing to do.
  - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    Thinking outside of the box, applying a known business tactic to an entirely different thing and being able to create a market for it all have a bit of brilliance at heart, IMO.
    - superuser2 13y ago
      Charging for something that is supposed to be free (or, more realistically, built into the cost of your iPhone or Mac) is just slimy.
      - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
        Like this? https://www.taskrabbit.com/blog/taskrabbit-news/after-nearly-100-hours-in-line-san-franciscos-first-iphone-5/ https://www.taskrabbit.com/blog/taskrabbit-news/after-nearly... People ate that up in gulps.
        superuser2 13y ago
        Charlie's TaskPoster hired someone's time to perform a task he could have done himself. These scalpers are making it impossible for anyone to book a Genius Bar appointment without paying them. Consuming a shared resource just to sell it at a profit is completely different from acting as an agent of someone else.
- ddxexex 13y ago
  It sounds like fraud to me. They are booking under the pretense that they need their iDevice fixed. They do not, they are booking in order to make money off other people. I'm not sure how the law in China would play out, but Apple could probably file a suit against these guys.
mhb 13y ago
Reminiscent of the old one-trip salad bar ploy: http://kotaku.com/how-chinese-ingenuity-destroyed-salad-bars-at-pizza-hut-834835079 http://kotaku.com/how-chinese-ingenuity-destroyed-salad-bars...
o0-0o 13y ago
Clones will be clones.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
rorrr2 13y ago
Charge a fee and refund to the person that shows up.
- EliRivers 13y ago
  I'll still turn a profit; I'll just charge the actual customer what I was charged, plus a profit, plus some extra to cover slots I don't sell (or, alternatively, I'll just come in to those slots myself to pick up the refund).
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    Charge a fee. Require the credit card used to make reservation to be physically present to use the reservation.
    - eurleif 13y ago
      So, when a legitimate customer doesn't pay attention to that rule, turn away business?
      - toomuchtodo 13y ago
        If you're a restaurant who doesn't want your reservations system gamed with, yes. Scalping reservations isn't innovative, it isn't clever. It's just plain old douchebaggery. Don't be a dick, and its not a problem. EDIT: With regards to bringing the right card, concerts and other businesses that sell tickets online with a will call option require the same card in person that you purchased with online. I don't believe it to be a burdensome requirement. EDIT 2: @jack-r-abbit: Okay, how about requiring an Apple ID to make the appointment? And limiting the amount of appointments you can make online? Low hassle yet still effective.
        eurleif 13y ago
        I meant, a legitimate customer -- one who has no link to scalpers -- might forget to bring the proper credit card.
gonzo 13y ago
Capitalism in action.
chollida1 13y ago
Stanford teaches an entrepreneurial course. During one of the courses students were given $5 to use to make money. The group that made the most money did so by getting reservations to restaurants on Friday and Saturday nights and then selling them to groups who didn't have reservations. I thought it was clever when I first heard about it but this type of thing is old hat by now:)
- aryastark 13y ago
  pretty sure Dwight did this (The Office, US version). That's where I first remember hearing it
  - thematt 13y ago
    Interesting, I don't remember that. I do, however, remember him buying up all the unicorn dolls at Christmas and then scalping them to last-minute parents.
  - milesokeefe 13y ago
    Yesm he made reservations at nice restaurants for valentines day six months in advance.
- ErikHuisman 13y ago
  And this isn't frowned upon at standford?
breakupapp 13y ago
Why don't you just check the names?
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  >The reporter was sent login details for the booking by instant messenger, and was then able to access the booking on the Apple site to change the details to their own. Once you buy the slot, you get access to it to change the name.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
chrisbennet 13y ago
The scalpers are just "adding liquidity to the market". /sarcasm

56 points by jack-r-abbit 13y ago

Brilliant! Is this actually illegal? I don't own any Apple products and have never booked a Genius Bar appointment so I don't know the terms of that booking. Maybe there is something in the fine print that your appointment is non-transferable? I wish the article went into more details about if this is illegal or just frowned upon. My gut tells me it is a loop hole that Apple will either change... or not care about. :)

archgoon 13y ago
Apple clearly does not wish to make money off Genius Bar appointments; if they did, they'd charge a fee. They're providing it as a service to their customers to improve their experience. This is akin to taking food from a soup kitchen and reselling it at the market rate. Nothing 'brilliant' about it.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  If you can figure out how to take food from a soup kitchen, sell it at the market rate, and make a profit, you're brilliant.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Stand in front of the soup kitchen with a bat, declare the kitchen to be "yours", and demand people pay you tribute for admission. That doesn't make you a genius, just an asshole.
    - chrischen 13y ago
      That would make you arrested.
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        In an ideal world, yes. Homeless people are frequently preyed upon though, particularly in less developed parts of the world. At a much different scale, consider warlords that sell intercepted donated food to the people it was meant to go to for free. They aren't geniuses, just massive assholes.
  - humblepie 13y ago
    This is the kind of thinking that ruins good things for everybody.
  - mynameishere 13y ago
    There you go. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/isle_take_that_welfare_scam_VBsTspIxia2GA9o2oS505L http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/isle_take_that_welfare_sc... No, it's not a soup kitchen. The point's the same. It's just people acting as parasites. Nothing brilliant about it.
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  I would not put them in the same bucket. I would put the Genius Bar thing into the same bucket as those Task Rabbit people getting paid to stand in line so someone else can show up last minute for the latest iGadget. I seem to recall people having mostly favorable thoughts about that idea. Taking food from the homeless is just jackassery.
freehunter 13y ago
I'm just going based off US law and not Chinese law (since I don't know Chinese law), but I don't see why it should be illegal. It might be against Apple's TOS, but take ticket scalping for example. In the US, there's no federal law against it, and it's only against the law in a handful of states. Even if the TOS said you couldn't do this, it wouldn't make it illegal (in the US). The TOS is not law, and the only repercussions would be civil.
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  That was my thought too. Simply exploiting a loophole of sorts. It sounds like once a booking is made, there is a way to go in and edit your info. Still curious if this a TOS violation or not.
  - Shivetya 13y ago
    well per replies on the original site, restrict access to those who an Apple ID and associated CC info on file. The only issue I see with that solution is, is the Genius Bar also there so advise people on which apple products to buy, hence new customers?
    - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
      Those replies simply give ideas on how Apple could prevent it if they wanted to. But that doesn't mean it violates the TOS currently. If it is not in the TOS right now, adding it would be one possible way to prevent it without causing issues for new customers.
bradleyland 13y ago
It needn't be illegal to be disallowed. Apple provides this service at will, and can set the terms in which you use it. There are, of course, legal boundaries within which every company must operate, but I'm not familiar with Chinese consumer protection law, so I have no idea if this is inside or outside the law. Also, it's not that brilliant, IMO. It is not unusual for secondary markets to spring up when the commodity is fungible and there is a supply constraint. See also: scalping sporting event and concert tickets; a practice that is also seen as a shiesty thing to do.
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  Thinking outside of the box, applying a known business tactic to an entirely different thing and being able to create a market for it all have a bit of brilliance at heart, IMO.
  - superuser2 13y ago
    Charging for something that is supposed to be free (or, more realistically, built into the cost of your iPhone or Mac) is just slimy.
    - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
      Like this? https://www.taskrabbit.com/blog/taskrabbit-news/after-nearly-100-hours-in-line-san-franciscos-first-iphone-5/ https://www.taskrabbit.com/blog/taskrabbit-news/after-nearly... People ate that up in gulps.
      - superuser2 13y ago
        Charlie's TaskPoster hired someone's time to perform a task he could have done himself. These scalpers are making it impossible for anyone to book a Genius Bar appointment without paying them. Consuming a shared resource just to sell it at a profit is completely different from acting as an agent of someone else.
ddxexex 13y ago
It sounds like fraud to me. They are booking under the pretense that they need their iDevice fixed. They do not, they are booking in order to make money off other people. I'm not sure how the law in China would play out, but Apple could probably file a suit against these guys.

mhb 13y ago

Reminiscent of the old one-trip salad bar ploy: http://kotaku.com/how-chinese-ingenuity-destroyed-salad-bars-at-pizza-hut-834835079 http://kotaku.com/how-chinese-ingenuity-destroyed-salad-bars...

o0-0o 13y ago

Clones will be clones.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

rorrr2 13y ago

Charge a fee and refund to the person that shows up.

EliRivers 13y ago
I'll still turn a profit; I'll just charge the actual customer what I was charged, plus a profit, plus some extra to cover slots I don't sell (or, alternatively, I'll just come in to those slots myself to pick up the refund).
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  Charge a fee. Require the credit card used to make reservation to be physically present to use the reservation.
  - eurleif 13y ago
    So, when a legitimate customer doesn't pay attention to that rule, turn away business?
    - toomuchtodo 13y ago
      If you're a restaurant who doesn't want your reservations system gamed with, yes. Scalping reservations isn't innovative, it isn't clever. It's just plain old douchebaggery. Don't be a dick, and its not a problem. EDIT: With regards to bringing the right card, concerts and other businesses that sell tickets online with a will call option require the same card in person that you purchased with online. I don't believe it to be a burdensome requirement. EDIT 2: @jack-r-abbit: Okay, how about requiring an Apple ID to make the appointment? And limiting the amount of appointments you can make online? Low hassle yet still effective.
      - eurleif 13y ago
        I meant, a legitimate customer -- one who has no link to scalpers -- might forget to bring the proper credit card.

gonzo 13y ago

Capitalism in action.

chollida1 13y ago

Stanford teaches an entrepreneurial course. During one of the courses students were given $5 to use to make money. The group that made the most money did so by getting reservations to restaurants on Friday and Saturday nights and then selling them to groups who didn't have reservations. I thought it was clever when I first heard about it but this type of thing is old hat by now:)

aryastark 13y ago
pretty sure Dwight did this (The Office, US version). That's where I first remember hearing it
- thematt 13y ago
  Interesting, I don't remember that. I do, however, remember him buying up all the unicorn dolls at Christmas and then scalping them to last-minute parents.
- milesokeefe 13y ago
  Yesm he made reservations at nice restaurants for valentines day six months in advance.
ErikHuisman 13y ago
And this isn't frowned upon at standford?

breakupapp 13y ago

Why don't you just check the names?

jack-r-abbit 13y ago
>The reporter was sent login details for the booking by instant messenger, and was then able to access the booking on the Apple site to change the details to their own. Once you buy the slot, you get access to it to change the name.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

chrisbennet 13y ago

The scalpers are just "adding liquidity to the market". /sarcasm