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Since the NSA says that there are such strict controls on who can access what sorts of data, how did Snowden gain possession of that data? If some private cont

by D9u 13y ago

Since the NSA says that there are such strict controls on who can access what sorts of data, how did Snowden gain possession of that data? If some private contractor can walk out with "thousands of classified documents" how are we supposed to believe that the NSA isn't lying about their allegedly strict controls?

powertower 13y ago
As far as I can tell, he - 1. Purposely stole 4 laptops to sift through them, looking for anything he could use. 2. Never gained any access to the spying data... Only classified documents. A motivated person like that, not being able to gain (and provide examples to us) of that spying data, goes right against your second statement.
- RyanZAG 13y ago
  1. Proving the point. He stole 4 laptops! 2. He stated he had full access to the system as a contractor and could lookup details on anyone he wanted. I fully believe him. In his documents he has examples of the systems being used. Bonus point. He has yet to release all the documents and has timed his releases very well. Expect more documents showing better examples to be released in the future when the US government has stated more lies that he can disprove.
  - powertower 13y ago
    > Proving the point. He stole 4 laptops! I've been trying to find the source, but I can't, so scratch off my #1. My understanding of it was the "theft of government property" charge was based on physical laptops, or their drives, being taken home... But I can no longer find that source. And all the media reports are alleging/assuming (though without any references or proof) that that charge is in relation to copying the data. And the indictment is sealed.
- cheald 13y ago
  Did he actually steal the laptops, or were they his laptops onto which he put stolen data?
- kjackson2012 13y ago
  Oh, so NSA laptops aren't encrypted?
bigiain 13y ago
As I've read it - the NSA are using the weasel-word "strict controls on analysts accessing data" – Snowden was a SysAdmin. I bet there's lots of other "non-specifically-analyst" roles at the NSA too. Like "Senior Analyst", or "Manager - Analyst Division".
falk 13y ago
Last night on CNN they tried to say Snowden stole passwords from his manager. They had on the ex-head of the NSA and he was like (paraphrasing), "We don't have any direct confirmation but we must entertain the idea that Showden had outside help. Why else would he go to China?!?" They also implied several times that Snowden isn't smart enough to do something like this on his own.
- conover 13y ago
  Wow. Nothing like a little character assassination. "We don't have any evidence, but unnamed sources tell us that he might be Hitler."
- D9u 13y ago
  So the NSA hires someone who's supposed to be not smart enough yet was able to steal passwords as well as laptops from them... I'd say that their security measures are a joke and I am concerned about how many other people can utilize NSA capabilities for personal reasons. Say, some geek who was picked on in school who decides to settle the score now that he's got the chance to dig up dirt on his tormentors. Or a jilted lover who decides to use NSA databases to stalk their ex. We're supposed to just blindly buy the story from the Puzzle Palace after they've been caught out in more than one blatant fabrication or omission? Sorry, not me, I can't trust people who deceive me.
djloche 13y ago
The grunts do the work and have access to everything.
moskie 13y ago
> how are we supposed to believe that the NSA isn't lying about their allegedly strict controls? I think you're getting close to a key issue here: I think one reason the public (and, I'll admit, myself) isn't so outraged yet, is that there isn't (much? any?) evidence that shows widespread abuse of these programs. Yes, I'd like these NSA programs to be dissolved, but if you want me to show up at a protest, I need a better reason than that the government has access to my email. Because while unwarranted access my email is unjust, it would be a different story if there was evidence that this information was routinely used to actively suppress innocent people. And I guess the reason I feel compelled to point this out, is because I think it explains why I haven't "lost faith in the system" when it comes to the U.S. government. As bad as these programs might be, I think it is important to recognize that there is a lack of tangibly bad consequences to these programs (so far!), and that we still have a chance to end them through the democratic process. And if that's the case, then all is not lost.... hopefully...
- john_b 13y ago
  > "it explains why I haven't "lost faith in the system" when it comes to the U.S. government. As bad as these programs might be, I think it is important to recognize that there is a lack of tangibly bad consequences to these programs (so far!)" s/so far/that we know of/ And that's only if you don't consider the rape of the Fourth Amendment a "tangibly bad consequence". If the US Congress passed a law suspending one's Miranda rights would you have the same attitude if the police didn't report any "tangibly bad consequences" they had observed? How you see these issues is a matter of perspective, and if you adopt the government's perspective you aren't doing your fellow citizens any good. Skepticism should always be the default response to any statements made by those in power concerning the proper limits of their power.

by D9u 13y ago

powertower 13y ago

As far as I can tell, he - 1. Purposely stole 4 laptops to sift through them, looking for anything he could use. 2. Never gained any access to the spying data... Only classified documents. A motivated person like that, not being able to gain (and provide examples to us) of that spying data, goes right against your second statement.

RyanZAG 13y ago
1. Proving the point. He stole 4 laptops! 2. He stated he had full access to the system as a contractor and could lookup details on anyone he wanted. I fully believe him. In his documents he has examples of the systems being used. Bonus point. He has yet to release all the documents and has timed his releases very well. Expect more documents showing better examples to be released in the future when the US government has stated more lies that he can disprove.
- powertower 13y ago
  > Proving the point. He stole 4 laptops! I've been trying to find the source, but I can't, so scratch off my #1. My understanding of it was the "theft of government property" charge was based on physical laptops, or their drives, being taken home... But I can no longer find that source. And all the media reports are alleging/assuming (though without any references or proof) that that charge is in relation to copying the data. And the indictment is sealed.
cheald 13y ago
Did he actually steal the laptops, or were they his laptops onto which he put stolen data?
kjackson2012 13y ago
Oh, so NSA laptops aren't encrypted?

bigiain 13y ago

As I've read it - the NSA are using the weasel-word "strict controls on analysts accessing data" – Snowden was a SysAdmin. I bet there's lots of other "non-specifically-analyst" roles at the NSA too. Like "Senior Analyst", or "Manager - Analyst Division".

falk 13y ago

Last night on CNN they tried to say Snowden stole passwords from his manager. They had on the ex-head of the NSA and he was like (paraphrasing), "We don't have any direct confirmation but we must entertain the idea that Showden had outside help. Why else would he go to China?!?" They also implied several times that Snowden isn't smart enough to do something like this on his own.

conover 13y ago
Wow. Nothing like a little character assassination. "We don't have any evidence, but unnamed sources tell us that he might be Hitler."
D9u 13y ago
So the NSA hires someone who's supposed to be not smart enough yet was able to steal passwords as well as laptops from them... I'd say that their security measures are a joke and I am concerned about how many other people can utilize NSA capabilities for personal reasons. Say, some geek who was picked on in school who decides to settle the score now that he's got the chance to dig up dirt on his tormentors. Or a jilted lover who decides to use NSA databases to stalk their ex. We're supposed to just blindly buy the story from the Puzzle Palace after they've been caught out in more than one blatant fabrication or omission? Sorry, not me, I can't trust people who deceive me.

djloche 13y ago

The grunts do the work and have access to everything.

moskie 13y ago

> how are we supposed to believe that the NSA isn't lying about their allegedly strict controls? I think you're getting close to a key issue here: I think one reason the public (and, I'll admit, myself) isn't so outraged yet, is that there isn't (much? any?) evidence that shows widespread abuse of these programs. Yes, I'd like these NSA programs to be dissolved, but if you want me to show up at a protest, I need a better reason than that the government has access to my email. Because while unwarranted access my email is unjust, it would be a different story if there was evidence that this information was routinely used to actively suppress innocent people. And I guess the reason I feel compelled to point this out, is because I think it explains why I haven't "lost faith in the system" when it comes to the U.S. government. As bad as these programs might be, I think it is important to recognize that there is a lack of tangibly bad consequences to these programs (so far!), and that we still have a chance to end them through the democratic process. And if that's the case, then all is not lost.... hopefully...

john_b 13y ago
> "it explains why I haven't "lost faith in the system" when it comes to the U.S. government. As bad as these programs might be, I think it is important to recognize that there is a lack of tangibly bad consequences to these programs (so far!)" s/so far/that we know of/ And that's only if you don't consider the rape of the Fourth Amendment a "tangibly bad consequence". If the US Congress passed a law suspending one's Miranda rights would you have the same attitude if the police didn't report any "tangibly bad consequences" they had observed? How you see these issues is a matter of perspective, and if you adopt the government's perspective you aren't doing your fellow citizens any good. Skepticism should always be the default response to any statements made by those in power concerning the proper limits of their power.