3 ms·

So... it's real. It's a piece of paper required to travel internationally. It's not virtual. A driver license isn't a virtual document stating you can legall

by marcc 13y ago

So... it's real. It's a piece of paper required to travel internationally. It's not virtual. A driver license isn't a virtual document stating you can legally drive a car, it's just a document stating you can legally drive a car.

oleganza 13y ago
Lets start with "Reality 101". The documents do not talk and do not act. It's just a piece of paper (real) with some text on it (real). But it becomes a legal thing only when some particular armed dude is looking at it and makes decisions. So: the decisions of the armed dude are real, but "legal statement" is just a virtual abstraction invented to hide the fact that some violence will be applied.
- TuringTest 13y ago
  You should attend "Reality 102", where they explain how abstractions and inventions like "rights" or "patriotism" or "duty" can affect the mind of the guys with the guns and influence whether they shoot or not.
  - oleganza 13y ago
    Millions of people believe in one god or another and visit churches where they are being taught about what's good and what's right. Does that kind of "education" make something right or wrong? Does it make it right for me to comply with soldier's orders if he was properly educated about patriotism by some people I don't even know about? So lets simply pray that gunned men are educated well and let them do their thing. E.g. killing innocent people overseas.
    - TuringTest 13y ago
      I thought you wanted to talk about what happens in reality. If you start discussing what's right or wrong, then you are no longer talking of what things are. You've switched courses to Ethical Philosophy 101; Reality was taught in the hard sciences faculty, Ethics is at liberal arts. In that case you'll have to consider all kind of perspectives, because what's considered right or wrong varies greatly by who is doing the consideration.
      - oleganza 13y ago
        I am talking about what's happening in reality. "Morality" and "ethics" are creations of our minds, not something we find lying around. When these abstractions are used to justify violence, then I come and expose it. I'm not the one who teaches you what's good and what's bad. I'm just pointing out grave contradictions in other people's justifications that lead to all sorts of things that many consider "evil". In other words: I'm not the one who will violently oppose your lifestyle, nor will I support those who will violently intervene in your life. Believe in what you want, live with people you like. I'd only like the same respect from you towards me. And in case we have some conflict, I'm all for peaceful non-violent solution. E.g. dialog, public debate, "defamation", boycott, economic ostracism etc. But no guns and ass-kicking (unless someone pulls out knifes and forks, in which case I'd have to run away and/or fight back, but I still don't justify violence).

by marcc 13y ago

oleganza 13y ago

Lets start with "Reality 101". The documents do not talk and do not act. It's just a piece of paper (real) with some text on it (real). But it becomes a legal thing only when some particular armed dude is looking at it and makes decisions. So: the decisions of the armed dude are real, but "legal statement" is just a virtual abstraction invented to hide the fact that some violence will be applied.

TuringTest 13y ago
You should attend "Reality 102", where they explain how abstractions and inventions like "rights" or "patriotism" or "duty" can affect the mind of the guys with the guns and influence whether they shoot or not.
- oleganza 13y ago
  Millions of people believe in one god or another and visit churches where they are being taught about what's good and what's right. Does that kind of "education" make something right or wrong? Does it make it right for me to comply with soldier's orders if he was properly educated about patriotism by some people I don't even know about? So lets simply pray that gunned men are educated well and let them do their thing. E.g. killing innocent people overseas.
  - TuringTest 13y ago
    I thought you wanted to talk about what happens in reality. If you start discussing what's right or wrong, then you are no longer talking of what things are. You've switched courses to Ethical Philosophy 101; Reality was taught in the hard sciences faculty, Ethics is at liberal arts. In that case you'll have to consider all kind of perspectives, because what's considered right or wrong varies greatly by who is doing the consideration.
    - oleganza 13y ago
      I am talking about what's happening in reality. "Morality" and "ethics" are creations of our minds, not something we find lying around. When these abstractions are used to justify violence, then I come and expose it. I'm not the one who teaches you what's good and what's bad. I'm just pointing out grave contradictions in other people's justifications that lead to all sorts of things that many consider "evil". In other words: I'm not the one who will violently oppose your lifestyle, nor will I support those who will violently intervene in your life. Believe in what you want, live with people you like. I'd only like the same respect from you towards me. And in case we have some conflict, I'm all for peaceful non-violent solution. E.g. dialog, public debate, "defamation", boycott, economic ostracism etc. But no guns and ass-kicking (unless someone pulls out knifes and forks, in which case I'd have to run away and/or fight back, but I still don't justify violence).