6 ms·

We should more than give him his due. We should throw him a frickin ticker-tape parade.

by jstalin 13y ago

staunch 13y ago
I'll settle for a pardon.
- alipang 13y ago
  Like the one Bradley Manning got.
  - nkassis 13y ago
    I know this will probably initiate a huge debate but I'm not personally convinced that what Bradley Manning released and what Snowden released is equivalent in scope. In the case of Snowden the documents seem much more targeted to exposing the problem he's trying to bring light on. While Manning made a much broad stroke release of tons of documents probably not even knowing the content of all those documents which totaled almost 500,000.
    - nikatwork 13y ago
      I don't think that's a controversial statement [1]. Now this doesn't per se mean Manning was unethical, but the two cases should be treated very differently. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10111819/Edward-Snowden-leaked-selectively-Bradley-Manning-did-not.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1...
    - ihsw 13y ago
      Any person that looks at the two situations and compares them objectively would come to the same conclusion -- one was reckless and negligent while the other was intentional and targeted. At the risk of diminishing Manning's plight, I'm sure whistleblowers like Snowden are exactly the kind that Wikileaks wants supporting them. Also, it stands to reason that Manning's plight itself may have inspired Snowden.
      - d23 13y ago
        I can never get pro-manning people to answer one simple question: what was he blowing the whistle on?
        samstave 13y ago
        Unchecked, indiscriminate killing of civilians in Iraq. Proving that the military was over there operating outside the spirit of what we as a supposed free democratic and just society stand for. Pretty damn simple.
        andrewfong 13y ago
        Most of the leaked information didn't concern that though. The most damning leak was the Collateral Murder video, and at most, it's more an example of negligence or confusion over the rules of engagement than indiscriminate killing of civilians.
      - ghshephard 13y ago
        I'm wondering if Manning's failure was going to Assange at WikiLeaks instead of Glen Greenwald at The Guardian? If there was a single thing that Snowden did better, it was showing good judgement in who he turned over his evidence to.
        mpyne 13y ago
        That's one of Manning's failures, yes. Assange used him and then hung him out to dry. Manning realized that for himself, but too late to make any difference. It was for that reason I got worried (and remain worried) for Snowden once WikiLeaks swooped in to plant their flag. I'd trust HRW, EFF, ACLU, FSFE, or even just flying his father over there before I would trust WikiLeaks to always think in Snowden's best interests, and on not just their own. WikiLeaks already screwed up the asylum process with Ecuador (via Assange's ego) long enough to possibly maroon him in Moscow. Glenn has his own issues IMO but I certainly get a better vibe from him regarding concern for the safety of his sources, and even concern for public safety compared to WikiLeaks.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  Under the current administration, I'm hoping we even get any sort of meaningful response to the pardon petition (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow...). I'm holding out a tiny glimmer of hope that Obama comes to his senses enough to pardon for the domestic pieces. It doesn't seem likely, but doesn't seem to directly contradict what he's said, and maybe Obama can pre-emptively compromise with me for once...
  - lukifer 13y ago
    The deadline's approaching. My money is on "We are unable to comment on an ongoing investigation."
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      That does seem most likely, and I would not count it as meaningful. They've also said before that they don't comment on individual pardons, though I can't think of a good reason for that. In this case, though, the pardon itself would be a substantial piece of policy. I think it would be disingenuous and disrespectful of the administration to refuse comment. I expect to be disrespected, but hold out some small amount of hope that they will surprise me.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

We should more than give him his due. We should throw him a frickin ticker-tape parade.

by jstalin 13y ago

We should more than give him his due. We should throw him a frickin ticker-tape parade.

staunch 13y ago

I'll settle for a pardon.

alipang 13y ago
Like the one Bradley Manning got.
- nkassis 13y ago
  I know this will probably initiate a huge debate but I'm not personally convinced that what Bradley Manning released and what Snowden released is equivalent in scope. In the case of Snowden the documents seem much more targeted to exposing the problem he's trying to bring light on. While Manning made a much broad stroke release of tons of documents probably not even knowing the content of all those documents which totaled almost 500,000.
  - nikatwork 13y ago
    I don't think that's a controversial statement [1]. Now this doesn't per se mean Manning was unethical, but the two cases should be treated very differently. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10111819/Edward-Snowden-leaked-selectively-Bradley-Manning-did-not.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1...
  - ihsw 13y ago
    Any person that looks at the two situations and compares them objectively would come to the same conclusion -- one was reckless and negligent while the other was intentional and targeted. At the risk of diminishing Manning's plight, I'm sure whistleblowers like Snowden are exactly the kind that Wikileaks wants supporting them. Also, it stands to reason that Manning's plight itself may have inspired Snowden.
    - d23 13y ago
      I can never get pro-manning people to answer one simple question: what was he blowing the whistle on?
      - samstave 13y ago
        Unchecked, indiscriminate killing of civilians in Iraq. Proving that the military was over there operating outside the spirit of what we as a supposed free democratic and just society stand for. Pretty damn simple.
        andrewfong 13y ago
        Most of the leaked information didn't concern that though. The most damning leak was the Collateral Murder video, and at most, it's more an example of negligence or confusion over the rules of engagement than indiscriminate killing of civilians.
    - ghshephard 13y ago
      I'm wondering if Manning's failure was going to Assange at WikiLeaks instead of Glen Greenwald at The Guardian? If there was a single thing that Snowden did better, it was showing good judgement in who he turned over his evidence to.
      - mpyne 13y ago
        That's one of Manning's failures, yes. Assange used him and then hung him out to dry. Manning realized that for himself, but too late to make any difference. It was for that reason I got worried (and remain worried) for Snowden once WikiLeaks swooped in to plant their flag. I'd trust HRW, EFF, ACLU, FSFE, or even just flying his father over there before I would trust WikiLeaks to always think in Snowden's best interests, and on not just their own. WikiLeaks already screwed up the asylum process with Ecuador (via Assange's ego) long enough to possibly maroon him in Moscow. Glenn has his own issues IMO but I certainly get a better vibe from him regarding concern for the safety of his sources, and even concern for public safety compared to WikiLeaks.
dllthomas 13y ago
Under the current administration, I'm hoping we even get any sort of meaningful response to the pardon petition (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow...). I'm holding out a tiny glimmer of hope that Obama comes to his senses enough to pardon for the domestic pieces. It doesn't seem likely, but doesn't seem to directly contradict what he's said, and maybe Obama can pre-emptively compromise with me for once...
- lukifer 13y ago
  The deadline's approaching. My money is on "We are unable to comment on an ongoing investigation."
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    That does seem most likely, and I would not count it as meaningful. They've also said before that they don't comment on individual pardons, though I can't think of a good reason for that. In this case, though, the pardon itself would be a substantial piece of policy. I think it would be disingenuous and disrespectful of the administration to refuse comment. I expect to be disrespected, but hold out some small amount of hope that they will surprise me.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]