4 ms·

How does a guy that makes excuses to spy on us all and lies to Congress deserve any courtesy?

by ferdo 13y ago

mseebach 13y ago
Well, maybe he doesn't, but you're the bigger man so you do it anyway. Turning the other cheek and all. Also, the organisers invited him because they thought you might want to hear what he has to say, so you do it out of respect for them.
- ferdo 13y ago
  Politicians and bureaucrats won't change until people start treating them with contempt, both socially and professionally. Playing nicey-nice with people that have little to no conscience doesn't work as a method of political change.
  - mseebach 13y ago
    Being rude also doesn't work as a method of political change? It doesn't, and in addition you alienate people who thing being civilised is a good thing. Politicians are already one of the most reviled groups around, and that doesn't discourage them. Stage effective, organised opposition that will actually threaten their plushy careers, then they'll listen.
    - ferdo 13y ago
      There's nothing civilized about being polite to people that are actively undermining our rights. Politeness is reserved for society, not for antisocial personalities.
- MarcScott 13y ago
  If we keep "turning the other cheek" we'll end up with broken jaws. I'm a polite individual but politeness will only get you so far. At some point people have to make a stand and say what is actually on their minds in as powerful a way as they know how.
SkyMarshal 13y ago
How on earth does shouting "bullshit" at him like an idiot fratboy make him any more likely to give your concerns any credence? The best it can do is surprise him for a millisecond, then let him write you off as an "unserious" person to be briefly patronized and then devoutly ignored (or worse, add you to a list of "interesting" persons).
- ferdo 13y ago
  Shouting "bullshit" might nudge a couple of people out of their slumber. If Joseph Welch had been "polite" to Joe McCarthy instead of talking to him like the opportunist that he was, McCarthy would have stayed in business.
  - podperson 13y ago
    In what way was Joseph Welch impolite? McCarthy was horribly rude, Welch patiently waited for his turn and spoke simply and eloquently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5GlFba5Yg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5GlFba5Yg
    - ferdo 13y ago
      This isn't politeness on Welch's part. This is how every member of the upper tiers of the MIC should be treated by the entire country: "Until this moment, Senator, I think I have never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness...Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so cruel as to do an injury to that lad...It is, I regret to say, equally true that I fear he shall always bear a scar needlessly inflicted by you. If it were in my power to forgive you for your reckless cruelty I would do so. I like to think I am a gentle man but your forgiveness will have to come from someone other than me." When McCarthy tried to renew his attack, Welch interrupted him: "Senator, may we not drop this? We know he belonged to the Lawyers Guild. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" McCarthy tried to ask Welch another question about Fisher, and Welch cut him off: "Mr. McCarthy, I will not discuss this further with you. You have sat within six feet of me and could have asked me about Fred Fisher. You have seen fit to bring it out. And if there is a God in Heaven it will do neither you nor your cause any good. I will not discuss it further. I will not ask Mr. Cohn any more questions. You, Mr. Chairman, may, if you will, call the next witness." > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_N._Welch#Army.E2.80.93McCarthy_hearings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_N._Welch#Army.E2.80.93Mc...

How does a guy that makes excuses to spy on us all and lies to Congress deserve any courtesy?

by ferdo 13y ago

How does a guy that makes excuses to spy on us all and lies to Congress deserve any courtesy?

Well, maybe he doesn't, but you're the bigger man so you do it anyway. Turning the other cheek and all. Also, the organisers invited him because they thought you might want to hear what he has to say, so you do it out of respect for them.

ferdo 13y ago
Politicians and bureaucrats won't change until people start treating them with contempt, both socially and professionally. Playing nicey-nice with people that have little to no conscience doesn't work as a method of political change.
- mseebach 13y ago
  Being rude also doesn't work as a method of political change? It doesn't, and in addition you alienate people who thing being civilised is a good thing. Politicians are already one of the most reviled groups around, and that doesn't discourage them. Stage effective, organised opposition that will actually threaten their plushy careers, then they'll listen.
  - ferdo 13y ago
    There's nothing civilized about being polite to people that are actively undermining our rights. Politeness is reserved for society, not for antisocial personalities.
MarcScott 13y ago
If we keep "turning the other cheek" we'll end up with broken jaws. I'm a polite individual but politeness will only get you so far. At some point people have to make a stand and say what is actually on their minds in as powerful a way as they know how.

SkyMarshal 13y ago

How on earth does shouting "bullshit" at him like an idiot fratboy make him any more likely to give your concerns any credence? The best it can do is surprise him for a millisecond, then let him write you off as an "unserious" person to be briefly patronized and then devoutly ignored (or worse, add you to a list of "interesting" persons).

ferdo 13y ago
Shouting "bullshit" might nudge a couple of people out of their slumber. If Joseph Welch had been "polite" to Joe McCarthy instead of talking to him like the opportunist that he was, McCarthy would have stayed in business.
- podperson 13y ago
  In what way was Joseph Welch impolite? McCarthy was horribly rude, Welch patiently waited for his turn and spoke simply and eloquently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5GlFba5Yg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5GlFba5Yg
  - ferdo 13y ago
    This isn't politeness on Welch's part. This is how every member of the upper tiers of the MIC should be treated by the entire country: "Until this moment, Senator, I think I have never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness...Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so cruel as to do an injury to that lad...It is, I regret to say, equally true that I fear he shall always bear a scar needlessly inflicted by you. If it were in my power to forgive you for your reckless cruelty I would do so. I like to think I am a gentle man but your forgiveness will have to come from someone other than me." When McCarthy tried to renew his attack, Welch interrupted him: "Senator, may we not drop this? We know he belonged to the Lawyers Guild. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" McCarthy tried to ask Welch another question about Fisher, and Welch cut him off: "Mr. McCarthy, I will not discuss this further with you. You have sat within six feet of me and could have asked me about Fred Fisher. You have seen fit to bring it out. And if there is a God in Heaven it will do neither you nor your cause any good. I will not discuss it further. I will not ask Mr. Cohn any more questions. You, Mr. Chairman, may, if you will, call the next witness." > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_N._Welch#Army.E2.80.93McCarthy_hearings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_N._Welch#Army.E2.80.93Mc...