6 ms·

Starbucks coffee is actually pretty darn good. Sure, if you live in SF, Seattle, Portland, or New York City, you have access to niche coffee shops that can real

Starbucks coffee is actually pretty darn good. Sure, if you live in SF, Seattle, Portland, or New York City, you have access to niche coffee shops that can really do better. But objectively speaking, Starbucks coffee is really about 90% as good. And for the rest of the country it _really_ raised the quality of coffee. 20 years ago you got bitter swill anywhere except the above trailblazing cities. Today you can get a properly pulled espresso with perfectly microfrothed whole milk anywhere in the country, which is a pretty mean feat. In a decade or two we've hit Italian levels of coffee quality.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> But objectively speaking, Starbucks coffee is really about 90% as good. "Objectively speaking" about a matter of taste is always improper.
- pbreit 13y ago
  But coffee quality is not strictly a matter of taste.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    "good/bad" quality is completely subjective. There may be objective qualities that have statistical correlations to people's "good/bad" assessments, but that doesn't stop "good" and "bad" from being subjective.
    - pbreit 13y ago
      quality is not completely subjective...sorry.
volaski 13y ago
I agree. My favorite is Philz, but even compared to that I would say Starbucks is at least 90% good. I would even go further to say that their Americano is sometimes better than a lot of what those hipster-famous coffee shops serve (but it's subjective because i don't like tangy flavor)
ambler0 13y ago
FWIW, every hip college town I have been to had multiple coffee shops that were better than Starbucks. You don't have to live in a large metropolis.
stusmall 13y ago
I don't think I've ever lived in a city that doesn't offer at least one better option. To me Starbucks is just a safe bet. If I'm in a new town and in a rush its a guaranteed commodity. Their mixed drinks are pretty good, but that's because they are so loaded down with sugar and syrups you can't taste the coffee. I usually avoid them since I'm not one for sweets. Their straight black drip is below bar. It used to be laughably bad but a couple years ago they made a serious effort to improve it. To me they are like Wendy's. Yeah, not the best, but not bad. I can do better at home or if I know the area... but that's not always the case.
ratsimihah 13y ago
I usually avoid being subjective, but Starbucks coffee is pretty bad, and most of their barista are hardly knowledgeable about coffee. Once, I asked for an espresso to stay, and it took them 5 long minutes to find an espresso cup. (I can't handle drinking espresso in an americano cup to go.) And talk about grinding. Anyway, I live in NYC and as you said, there are plenty of local coffee shops with awesome coffee (Gregory's, Kaffee 1668, grounded), so I can't complain. But it'd be terrific if Google could support these better coffee shops instead of just following the masses, because they provide a much better experience.
Groxx 13y ago
Ehh, nearly every city I've been to with a population over ~20k has had noticeably better coffee in at least one local spot. It's not just the major cities. But yes, comparing the average cup of coffee before/after Starbucks got big is a night-and-day comparison. I just wish everyone wouldn't try to taste like Starbucks, now. They can't do it half as well as Starbucks does, so you just get worse everything.
- enjo 13y ago
  Perhaps. But with Starbucks I know exactly what I'm going to get. I know I'll have decent wifi. I know I can sit there and use it all day long. When I travel, I look for Starbucks. It's just the safest bet to know I'm going to get work done that day.
davidw 13y ago
> Italian levels of coffee quality. Interestingly, Italians, from what I can tell, are not "coffee snobs" at all. They drink espresso, cappuccino, macchiato, etc... and just expect it to be pretty good, but I've never seen people discuss it much, like you might with wine. I don't drink the stuff at all, so have no opinion on the quality anywhere.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> But objectively speaking, Starbucks coffee is really about 90% as good. "Objectively speaking" about a matter of taste is always improper.

pbreit 13y ago
But coffee quality is not strictly a matter of taste.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  "good/bad" quality is completely subjective. There may be objective qualities that have statistical correlations to people's "good/bad" assessments, but that doesn't stop "good" and "bad" from being subjective.
  - pbreit 13y ago
    quality is not completely subjective...sorry.

volaski 13y ago

I agree. My favorite is Philz, but even compared to that I would say Starbucks is at least 90% good. I would even go further to say that their Americano is sometimes better than a lot of what those hipster-famous coffee shops serve (but it's subjective because i don't like tangy flavor)

ambler0 13y ago

FWIW, every hip college town I have been to had multiple coffee shops that were better than Starbucks. You don't have to live in a large metropolis.

stusmall 13y ago

I don't think I've ever lived in a city that doesn't offer at least one better option. To me Starbucks is just a safe bet. If I'm in a new town and in a rush its a guaranteed commodity. Their mixed drinks are pretty good, but that's because they are so loaded down with sugar and syrups you can't taste the coffee. I usually avoid them since I'm not one for sweets. Their straight black drip is below bar. It used to be laughably bad but a couple years ago they made a serious effort to improve it. To me they are like Wendy's. Yeah, not the best, but not bad. I can do better at home or if I know the area... but that's not always the case.

ratsimihah 13y ago

I usually avoid being subjective, but Starbucks coffee is pretty bad, and most of their barista are hardly knowledgeable about coffee. Once, I asked for an espresso to stay, and it took them 5 long minutes to find an espresso cup. (I can't handle drinking espresso in an americano cup to go.) And talk about grinding. Anyway, I live in NYC and as you said, there are plenty of local coffee shops with awesome coffee (Gregory's, Kaffee 1668, grounded), so I can't complain. But it'd be terrific if Google could support these better coffee shops instead of just following the masses, because they provide a much better experience.

Groxx 13y ago

Ehh, nearly every city I've been to with a population over ~20k has had noticeably better coffee in at least one local spot. It's not just the major cities. But yes, comparing the average cup of coffee before/after Starbucks got big is a night-and-day comparison. I just wish everyone wouldn't try to taste like Starbucks, now. They can't do it half as well as Starbucks does, so you just get worse everything.

enjo 13y ago
Perhaps. But with Starbucks I know exactly what I'm going to get. I know I'll have decent wifi. I know I can sit there and use it all day long. When I travel, I look for Starbucks. It's just the safest bet to know I'm going to get work done that day.

davidw 13y ago

> Italian levels of coffee quality. Interestingly, Italians, from what I can tell, are not "coffee snobs" at all. They drink espresso, cappuccino, macchiato, etc... and just expect it to be pretty good, but I've never seen people discuss it much, like you might with wine. I don't drink the stuff at all, so have no opinion on the quality anywhere.