6 ms·

Escape the country. Going into a foreign embassy is not gonna do you any good. "The Free World" spies on, and jails its own people, and it will not risk anothe

by mahmud 13y ago

Escape the country. Going into a foreign embassy is not gonna do you any good. "The Free World" spies on, and jails its own people, and it will not risk another Mohammad cartoongate helping you. So don't even think about requesting asylum at an embassy. Sell all you own and head to the nearest border/coastal town. Pay off smugglers or fishermen and get the fuck out.

3a0e8ff4e557 13y ago
And then?
- mahmud 13y ago
  THEN apply for asylum privately, out of the media. It will be very hard living as an undocumented person, but I have seen it done. I'm Somali.
  - xtrumanx 13y ago
    Well what do you know. All these years I had you pegged as Egyptian. Not sure why. Do you ever visit Hargeisa?
    - mahmud 13y ago
      My family is from Hargeisa, but I haven never set foot in it.
- thejosh 13y ago
  Live off the land as a travelling fugitive.
  - 46Bit 13y ago
    Whose land? He probably couldn't find legal work anywhere in the world.
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      OTOH, North Korea may be the only place that an illegal immigrant can't find work.
- BWStearns 13y ago
  Also depending on the country you're in, keep in mind that you might be marked as suspicious for visiting a foreign embassy. Perhaps send a friend or someone to do the advice getting and only go when you have solid advice from a professional diplomat or embassy staffer that recommends that you do so.
  - ckozlowski 13y ago
    Good advice.
- mahmud 13y ago
  Now that it came to light that you are in Malaysia, I would modify my initial suggestion. 1) I don't recommend escape as before. I was fearing you might be in an Arab country. Malaysia has what vaguely resembles a law, at least. 2) On the other hand, you are ethnic Chinese. I'd tell the lawyer to bring up the issue of your safety in prison. Man, my heart is seriously aching for you, specially after reading your story. Be safe.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    Out of curiosity, why specifically did you change your advice of escaping Malaysia?
    - mahmud 13y ago
      It says in #1 that I was afraid he might be in the Mideast. Arabs would hang him with impunity to make an example of him. Malaysia can't: it would be perceived as racially motivated, as he is ethnic Chinese, and Malaysia is already under scrutiny for its race relations.
      - notahacker 13y ago
        It's also worth adding that being from a relatively stable, democratic and secular country like Malaysia would make it much harder for him to claim asylum in other countries on the grounds of "religious persecution".
        strlen 13y ago
        Malaysia also has numerous treaties and strong ties with the United States (including security cooperation). Given the Snowden situation, it is quite possible that US would simply refuse to grant asylum (by claiming the charges aren't political) for two purposes: 1) show "sensitivity" to the Islamist world (after implicitly supporting Morsi's outster) 2) to encourage other countries to turn over future whistle blowers despite plausibility of charges against them being political. It isn't likely that he'll garner political support either: the religious right is itself opposed to pornography and like hopes such laws would exist in the US -- social conservatives are fighting hard to defend the idea that laws that prohibit actions that cause no harm are still legitimate, some segments on the left may be prone to political correctness or partisanship (as "their" guy is in power now). Sometimes I think the cause of liberalism (broadly defined -- I don't mean celebrating Clinton over champaign, I mean a belief in individual liberty) has (by now) been hopelessly lost. It looks like the fight is between two varieties of anti-liberal communitarian thought: one merely favours a more diverse and equal society, the other is more traditional; they seem, however, to agree social conventions can trump individual rights (they just disagree what those conventions should be) and that achieving near absolutely security (even against already improbable events) is a more important goal (even if still unreachable) than maintaining most basic civil liberties.
ckozlowski 13y ago
While we in the "free world" have unprecedented concerns these days, I don't think spying is relevant to the issues the gentleman here is facing, and the assumptions that he will not be helped seem cynical, at best. That being said, the ability of a foreign embassy to get you out may be limited. As we've seen in other cases lately, asylum can be granted, but only once you arrive. Laws are tricky things, and no country is going to use its diplomatic office as a backdoor for fugitives to flee the country as its an abuse of the privileges given. Once you're on another countries' soil however, "de facto" takes precedence. What a foreign embassy can do however, is give you real, factual advice. For that reason alone, I'd suggest visiting one. They can advice you on what your legal options are and what opportunities are available to you. It is important that you receive information that is accurate and actionable. We here at HN can offer suggestions, but you need the advice of professionals and experts. Speak to an embassy official and get the facts.
cahitonur 13y ago
You think life is a video game, don't you? There are some other geniuses suggesting the same useless solution. Let's say he did what you said. Do you think he will be able to build a life easily in another country as a refugee? Even opening a bank account will be a huge pain in the ass. The rest of his life will be ruined basically. And it seems he don't care about going to jail, he wants to keep his business running. Escaping the country will do the opposite.
- johndevor 13y ago
  Life isn't a game of "Prison Architect." I suspect prison sucks more than anything you could imagine in a video game. The poster's comment is useful to the OP, especially considering OP could be facing 10, 20, 30, or more years for his "infraction." We just don't know, so we can't assume that OP would prefer to remain in his country of origin.
  - outworlder 13y ago
    I suspect that prison might suck even more in a country full of muslims, considering his 'crime' has religious grounds. He's probably going to get worse treatment than average from the other inmates.
- serf 13y ago
  Are you seriously comparing the difficulty of opening a bank account to the difficulty of losing your freedom and liberty? You know, people did live before banks.. The only reason you think that he doesn't care about going to jail is the fact that he's prioritizing his livelihood. You're conveniently missing the lines where he calls it a mob action. He clearly doesn't agree with the sentence.
  - cahitonur 13y ago
    Actually, I'm just focusing on the question. He is asking "how can I save my business" not his freedom. Let him think about his own freedom. And when I compare a couple of years in prison to my whole life the answer is clear for me. Escaping the country brings the bonus that he will never be able to see his own country again. As an expat who is away from home for the last 4 years I can easily say that it sucks. Being away from home doesn't make you free.
cpursley 13y ago
Agreed. You need to leave. Now. Sell your stuff, get currency, use your international connections. It's going to be the hardest thing you've ever done, but liberty is the most important. Who knows what will happen in prison and for how long they will detain you. Also, depending on how technically competent your government is, you need to get all your services offshore now: Wuala for storage (like dropbox - based in Switzerland); Runbox for email (based in Norway); servers in somewhere like Europe or other nearby friendly countries that provide sufficient bandwidth... Burner phone, TOR, careful about your online presence, etc. In the meantime, move locally and rent a place cash under the table where address won't be registered. Basically, become invisible to your government. Then you want to move your business domicile and bank accounts elsewhere if feasible so your local government can't confiscate your business once you do leave. Read into the 5-flag theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler You're entrepreneurial, intellectually curious, freedom-loving - rotting away in prison would be a waste of great talent and not to mention a human rights violation. Starting a startup is hard enough as it is, it's important. But not as important as liberty. If you plan correctly, you can have both. Obviously, I (or likely none of us on here) cant fully empathize with your situation - best of luck!! Edit: Are you in Singapore? I know Singapore is socially strict, but I thought it was secular. If you're in Malaysia, it's a different story. Moving your domicile and bank accounts to Singapore might make a lot of sense if you're in Malaysia.
- jacquesm 13y ago
  Slight problem, elsewhere in the thread he says his passport is confiscated.
  - cpursley 13y ago
    There are other ways. There are millions of people in the USA and Europe without passports.
    - muyuu 13y ago
      If they are not nationals, they are illegals. If it's not a very long sentence, OP is better off trying that after he's done with it. Maybe ask for asylum, but afterwards.
PencilAndPaper 13y ago
You are giving this advice not even knowing which country the poster is in!

by mahmud 13y ago

3a0e8ff4e557 13y ago

And then?

mahmud 13y ago
THEN apply for asylum privately, out of the media. It will be very hard living as an undocumented person, but I have seen it done. I'm Somali.
- xtrumanx 13y ago
  Well what do you know. All these years I had you pegged as Egyptian. Not sure why. Do you ever visit Hargeisa?
  - mahmud 13y ago
    My family is from Hargeisa, but I haven never set foot in it.
thejosh 13y ago
Live off the land as a travelling fugitive.
- 46Bit 13y ago
  Whose land? He probably couldn't find legal work anywhere in the world.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    OTOH, North Korea may be the only place that an illegal immigrant can't find work.
BWStearns 13y ago
Also depending on the country you're in, keep in mind that you might be marked as suspicious for visiting a foreign embassy. Perhaps send a friend or someone to do the advice getting and only go when you have solid advice from a professional diplomat or embassy staffer that recommends that you do so.
- ckozlowski 13y ago
  Good advice.
mahmud 13y ago
Now that it came to light that you are in Malaysia, I would modify my initial suggestion. 1) I don't recommend escape as before. I was fearing you might be in an Arab country. Malaysia has what vaguely resembles a law, at least. 2) On the other hand, you are ethnic Chinese. I'd tell the lawyer to bring up the issue of your safety in prison. Man, my heart is seriously aching for you, specially after reading your story. Be safe.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  Out of curiosity, why specifically did you change your advice of escaping Malaysia?
  - mahmud 13y ago
    It says in #1 that I was afraid he might be in the Mideast. Arabs would hang him with impunity to make an example of him. Malaysia can't: it would be perceived as racially motivated, as he is ethnic Chinese, and Malaysia is already under scrutiny for its race relations.
    - notahacker 13y ago
      It's also worth adding that being from a relatively stable, democratic and secular country like Malaysia would make it much harder for him to claim asylum in other countries on the grounds of "religious persecution".
      - strlen 13y ago
        Malaysia also has numerous treaties and strong ties with the United States (including security cooperation). Given the Snowden situation, it is quite possible that US would simply refuse to grant asylum (by claiming the charges aren't political) for two purposes: 1) show "sensitivity" to the Islamist world (after implicitly supporting Morsi's outster) 2) to encourage other countries to turn over future whistle blowers despite plausibility of charges against them being political. It isn't likely that he'll garner political support either: the religious right is itself opposed to pornography and like hopes such laws would exist in the US -- social conservatives are fighting hard to defend the idea that laws that prohibit actions that cause no harm are still legitimate, some segments on the left may be prone to political correctness or partisanship (as "their" guy is in power now). Sometimes I think the cause of liberalism (broadly defined -- I don't mean celebrating Clinton over champaign, I mean a belief in individual liberty) has (by now) been hopelessly lost. It looks like the fight is between two varieties of anti-liberal communitarian thought: one merely favours a more diverse and equal society, the other is more traditional; they seem, however, to agree social conventions can trump individual rights (they just disagree what those conventions should be) and that achieving near absolutely security (even against already improbable events) is a more important goal (even if still unreachable) than maintaining most basic civil liberties.

ckozlowski 13y ago

While we in the "free world" have unprecedented concerns these days, I don't think spying is relevant to the issues the gentleman here is facing, and the assumptions that he will not be helped seem cynical, at best. That being said, the ability of a foreign embassy to get you out may be limited. As we've seen in other cases lately, asylum can be granted, but only once you arrive. Laws are tricky things, and no country is going to use its diplomatic office as a backdoor for fugitives to flee the country as its an abuse of the privileges given. Once you're on another countries' soil however, "de facto" takes precedence. What a foreign embassy can do however, is give you real, factual advice. For that reason alone, I'd suggest visiting one. They can advice you on what your legal options are and what opportunities are available to you. It is important that you receive information that is accurate and actionable. We here at HN can offer suggestions, but you need the advice of professionals and experts. Speak to an embassy official and get the facts.

cahitonur 13y ago

You think life is a video game, don't you? There are some other geniuses suggesting the same useless solution. Let's say he did what you said. Do you think he will be able to build a life easily in another country as a refugee? Even opening a bank account will be a huge pain in the ass. The rest of his life will be ruined basically. And it seems he don't care about going to jail, he wants to keep his business running. Escaping the country will do the opposite.

johndevor 13y ago
Life isn't a game of "Prison Architect." I suspect prison sucks more than anything you could imagine in a video game. The poster's comment is useful to the OP, especially considering OP could be facing 10, 20, 30, or more years for his "infraction." We just don't know, so we can't assume that OP would prefer to remain in his country of origin.
- outworlder 13y ago
  I suspect that prison might suck even more in a country full of muslims, considering his 'crime' has religious grounds. He's probably going to get worse treatment than average from the other inmates.
serf 13y ago
Are you seriously comparing the difficulty of opening a bank account to the difficulty of losing your freedom and liberty? You know, people did live before banks.. The only reason you think that he doesn't care about going to jail is the fact that he's prioritizing his livelihood. You're conveniently missing the lines where he calls it a mob action. He clearly doesn't agree with the sentence.
- cahitonur 13y ago
  Actually, I'm just focusing on the question. He is asking "how can I save my business" not his freedom. Let him think about his own freedom. And when I compare a couple of years in prison to my whole life the answer is clear for me. Escaping the country brings the bonus that he will never be able to see his own country again. As an expat who is away from home for the last 4 years I can easily say that it sucks. Being away from home doesn't make you free.

cpursley 13y ago

Agreed. You need to leave. Now. Sell your stuff, get currency, use your international connections. It's going to be the hardest thing you've ever done, but liberty is the most important. Who knows what will happen in prison and for how long they will detain you. Also, depending on how technically competent your government is, you need to get all your services offshore now: Wuala for storage (like dropbox - based in Switzerland); Runbox for email (based in Norway); servers in somewhere like Europe or other nearby friendly countries that provide sufficient bandwidth... Burner phone, TOR, careful about your online presence, etc. In the meantime, move locally and rent a place cash under the table where address won't be registered. Basically, become invisible to your government. Then you want to move your business domicile and bank accounts elsewhere if feasible so your local government can't confiscate your business once you do leave. Read into the 5-flag theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler You're entrepreneurial, intellectually curious, freedom-loving - rotting away in prison would be a waste of great talent and not to mention a human rights violation. Starting a startup is hard enough as it is, it's important. But not as important as liberty. If you plan correctly, you can have both. Obviously, I (or likely none of us on here) cant fully empathize with your situation - best of luck!! Edit: Are you in Singapore? I know Singapore is socially strict, but I thought it was secular. If you're in Malaysia, it's a different story. Moving your domicile and bank accounts to Singapore might make a lot of sense if you're in Malaysia.

jacquesm 13y ago
Slight problem, elsewhere in the thread he says his passport is confiscated.
- cpursley 13y ago
  There are other ways. There are millions of people in the USA and Europe without passports.
  - muyuu 13y ago
    If they are not nationals, they are illegals. If it's not a very long sentence, OP is better off trying that after he's done with it. Maybe ask for asylum, but afterwards.

PencilAndPaper 13y ago

You are giving this advice not even knowing which country the poster is in!