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As much as I used to hate them (competed vs Excel in the 1980s and lost) now I mostly pity them. I was at Apple in 1995 and it was both depressing and sad that

As much as I used to hate them (competed vs Excel in the 1980s and lost) now I mostly pity them. I was at Apple in 1995 and it was both depressing and sad that a once great company was on death's door. But other than a huge amount of cash (which Apple sure didn't have, they even took away our popcorn maker) there doesn't seem to be a savior on the horizon.

sirkneeland 13y ago
That anecdote could just as easily show how no all is lost for Microsoft..."See how doomed Apple looked, and look at them now!"
gruseom 13y ago
competed vs Excel in the 1980s and lost I'd like to hear more about that. What was the product? Why did it lose?
- coldcode 13y ago
  Trapeze was a very different kind of spreadsheet program, more like a cross between a numerical Mathematica and a spreadsheet. It was not built on the traditional row and column grid. We made the mistake of trying to market vs Excel when in reality it was a higher level modeling tool. I still get emails from former users who still remember it fondly.
  - gruseom 13y ago
    That's fascinating. I googled a little and found [1], which speaks highly of Trapeze. It even says that modern spreadsheets still haven't caught up to it. I'd heard of Improv, but not Trapeze. It sounds like you were earlier. Did you see a lot of similarity when Improv (and later Quantrix) came out? Also, why do you think that Excel users, even sophisticated ones, tend to stick to Excel instead of using higher-level modeling tools? Is it simply that Excel is entrenched, or are there conceptual reasons? [1] http://basalgangster.macgui.com/RetroMacComputing/The_Long_View/Entries/2011/3/26_Trapeze.html http://basalgangster.macgui.com/RetroMacComputing/The_Long_V...
    - coldcode 13y ago
      Improv came later. We released Trapeze in Jan 1987. People followed some of the ideas we did but no matter every spreadsheet ultimately failed vs Excel. I think being part of Office made Excel the only game in town. Powerpoint won vs Persuasion (another app I worked on part of) for the same reason.

sirkneeland 13y ago

That anecdote could just as easily show how no all is lost for Microsoft..."See how doomed Apple looked, and look at them now!"

gruseom 13y ago

competed vs Excel in the 1980s and lost I'd like to hear more about that. What was the product? Why did it lose?

coldcode 13y ago
Trapeze was a very different kind of spreadsheet program, more like a cross between a numerical Mathematica and a spreadsheet. It was not built on the traditional row and column grid. We made the mistake of trying to market vs Excel when in reality it was a higher level modeling tool. I still get emails from former users who still remember it fondly.
- gruseom 13y ago
  That's fascinating. I googled a little and found [1], which speaks highly of Trapeze. It even says that modern spreadsheets still haven't caught up to it. I'd heard of Improv, but not Trapeze. It sounds like you were earlier. Did you see a lot of similarity when Improv (and later Quantrix) came out? Also, why do you think that Excel users, even sophisticated ones, tend to stick to Excel instead of using higher-level modeling tools? Is it simply that Excel is entrenched, or are there conceptual reasons? [1] http://basalgangster.macgui.com/RetroMacComputing/The_Long_View/Entries/2011/3/26_Trapeze.html http://basalgangster.macgui.com/RetroMacComputing/The_Long_V...
  - coldcode 13y ago
    Improv came later. We released Trapeze in Jan 1987. People followed some of the ideas we did but no matter every spreadsheet ultimately failed vs Excel. I think being part of Office made Excel the only game in town. Powerpoint won vs Persuasion (another app I worked on part of) for the same reason.