11 ms·

This is where we are going next; CoreOS is super young today though. We want to build an environment where you run and manage all of those servers and database

by philips 13y ago

This is where we are going next; CoreOS is super young today though. We want to build an environment where you run and manage all of those servers and databases inside of containers and via APIs. Or even better skip the APIs and just add nodes and have something like etcd help you configure it dynamically But, we needed to get all of the foundations solid and that is where we are today.

dschiptsov 13y ago
So, you are not encountered the dependency and version hell yet and just assumed that maintaining all the libs and tools a rails app is implicitly requires is a easy task?) Good luck, then.)
- RickHull 13y ago
  No, that part is already solved. That's what containers do. I believe philips is saying that CoreOS is still experimenting with and reifying exactly what the layer above containerized applications should be composed of and look like.
  - dschiptsov 13y ago
    So, basically, it looks like as if I move my /usr/local directory between hosts to be run under chroot, using aufs instead of tar.gz, lxc instead of chroot and some wrapper around ssh and scp? but with all that hype and memes? It looks like implementation of FreeBSD's jails with impoverished ports and fancy command-line tool. OK. Update: what is really interesting is the amount of hype the Docker project created, having no fundamentally new ideas or technological advances, just well-written (we must admit) web pages full of buzzwords. As a person who ran FreeBSD jail-based virtual hosting in production, I would say that disk and network I/O will be a bottleneck, because either interface does not scale well enough.)
    - justincormack 13y ago
      SSD and 10Gb Ethernet are big changes...
    - Ixiaus 13y ago
      I've been running FreeBSD zfs backed jails for quite some time too (I still think FreeBSD is superior to Linux in many ways). What docker does that ezjails + zfs doesn't do is make it transportable. Sure you could write a script to bundle up your jail but Docker is making it possible to distribute an application orthogonally. Docker is also replete with tools for sharing containers, providing a container server (privately!), and many others... On performance: containerization > virtualization. Containerization is also not just about performance (people are running it in virtualized environments) it's also about contained configurations. Your tone is unnecessarily belligerent (I could be reading into what you wrote though). Also - I know people who know people and are pushing for the Docker team to support containerizing FreeBSD jails too. Since the primary work horse right now for Docker is lxc, it should be possible to generalize it enough to include support for FreeBSD jails. Docker does more than just "jail"; it does for jails what package managers did for programs.
      - dschiptsov 13y ago
        I do not understand "orthogonality", sorry. I think in terms of ldd's output, and it tells me that nothing fundamentally new could be created. It either packages in /usr or stuff in /usr/local/ You might mount /usr as uniounfs - same for many jails, but you cannot undo dynamic linking, at least statically linked ruby is nonsense (but static linking sometimes is a good idea). I also cannot understand "containerization" why a snapshot created by tar is not a container? The assumption that you could reduce /lib is naive. Yes, /usr/lib could be reduced, but only by removing gnome stuff and some fancies. I have tried to make minimalist but compatible system. It doesn't happen. Things like kerberos, sasl, ldap, pam messes everything up. I ended up with almost exactly the "minimum install". Paraphrasing a bit "dependencies! dependencies! dependencies!" and minimal install of Fedora or Ubuntu Server is almost optimal.
        13y ago
- cmelbye 13y ago
  Is it not an easy task? Install rvm and run "bundle" and you're pretty much done. Regardless, that's not necessarily part of the scope of this project as far as I can see. That's handled within the container which is managed by Docker and it's configuration system.

by philips 13y ago

dschiptsov 13y ago

So, you are not encountered the dependency and version hell yet and just assumed that maintaining all the libs and tools a rails app is implicitly requires is a easy task?) Good luck, then.)

RickHull 13y ago
No, that part is already solved. That's what containers do. I believe philips is saying that CoreOS is still experimenting with and reifying exactly what the layer above containerized applications should be composed of and look like.
- dschiptsov 13y ago
  So, basically, it looks like as if I move my /usr/local directory between hosts to be run under chroot, using aufs instead of tar.gz, lxc instead of chroot and some wrapper around ssh and scp? but with all that hype and memes? It looks like implementation of FreeBSD's jails with impoverished ports and fancy command-line tool. OK. Update: what is really interesting is the amount of hype the Docker project created, having no fundamentally new ideas or technological advances, just well-written (we must admit) web pages full of buzzwords. As a person who ran FreeBSD jail-based virtual hosting in production, I would say that disk and network I/O will be a bottleneck, because either interface does not scale well enough.)
  - justincormack 13y ago
    SSD and 10Gb Ethernet are big changes...
  - Ixiaus 13y ago
    I've been running FreeBSD zfs backed jails for quite some time too (I still think FreeBSD is superior to Linux in many ways). What docker does that ezjails + zfs doesn't do is make it transportable. Sure you could write a script to bundle up your jail but Docker is making it possible to distribute an application orthogonally. Docker is also replete with tools for sharing containers, providing a container server (privately!), and many others... On performance: containerization > virtualization. Containerization is also not just about performance (people are running it in virtualized environments) it's also about contained configurations. Your tone is unnecessarily belligerent (I could be reading into what you wrote though). Also - I know people who know people and are pushing for the Docker team to support containerizing FreeBSD jails too. Since the primary work horse right now for Docker is lxc, it should be possible to generalize it enough to include support for FreeBSD jails. Docker does more than just "jail"; it does for jails what package managers did for programs.
    - dschiptsov 13y ago
      I do not understand "orthogonality", sorry. I think in terms of ldd's output, and it tells me that nothing fundamentally new could be created. It either packages in /usr or stuff in /usr/local/ You might mount /usr as uniounfs - same for many jails, but you cannot undo dynamic linking, at least statically linked ruby is nonsense (but static linking sometimes is a good idea). I also cannot understand "containerization" why a snapshot created by tar is not a container? The assumption that you could reduce /lib is naive. Yes, /usr/lib could be reduced, but only by removing gnome stuff and some fancies. I have tried to make minimalist but compatible system. It doesn't happen. Things like kerberos, sasl, ldap, pam messes everything up. I ended up with almost exactly the "minimum install". Paraphrasing a bit "dependencies! dependencies! dependencies!" and minimal install of Fedora or Ubuntu Server is almost optimal.
      - 13y ago
cmelbye 13y ago
Is it not an easy task? Install rvm and run "bundle" and you're pretty much done. Regardless, that's not necessarily part of the scope of this project as far as I can see. That's handled within the container which is managed by Docker and it's configuration system.