4 ms·

Being convicted of a felony in the US is never over. A plea deal like that is a life sentence of a different sort.

mpyne 13y ago
This kind of felony would hardly have been the end of the world. Why, I bet it's possible that one could even go on to great success in the tech field, even with (or especially with) a CFAA felony. That's kind of besides the point, because a felony conviction would have been overkill here. But it still would have been much better than the alternative we ended up getting. Let's face it, many hackers have faced felony charges before without killing themselves, and few of them had as much potentially going for them after the trial as Aaron would have.
twoodfin 13y ago
Well it's a "life sentence" that somehow one of YC's founders managed to survive. Not just survive, but become very successful and an MIT professor. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of a felony conviction, but it shouldn't be overplayed either.
- sophacles 13y ago
  You note the exceptional case. Of course odds of that happening are very low. Hence it is exceptional. Sure - 2% of people survived a fall from the Golden Gate bridge, so that means it's silly to focus on the death aspects of such a fall when reasoning about "if someone does fall". Similarly people occasionally choke to death on food. So we should stop talking about eating without serious choking warnings all over the place, right?
  - mpyne 13y ago
    Well let me add another 'exceptional case' then. I worked with a felon who was even able to get a security clearance and a government job and serve on 'special' assignments. Swartz happened to work in one of the very few fields where a CFAA felony is not only not a big deal, but might even be considered a badge of honor. So IMHO the argument that a felony would have been some kind of death sentence for aaronsw definitely requires evidence.
  - MichaelSalib 13y ago
    Look, there are people for whom a felony conviction could seriously ruin their life. If you've spent your entire life trying to be a defense attorney, or you long to join the FBI, a felony conviction ends your dreams. Swartz wasn't like that. A felony conviction would have prevented him from working at IBM but he wasn't going to do that anyway. For all possible jobs he could have gotten before, a felony conviction would have been a badge of honor or irrelevant.
- raldi 13y ago
  Aaron's friend and colleague Kevin Poulsen also bounced back pretty darn well from his felony conviction and prison sentence.
angersock 13y ago
So, this is an interesting thing, right? We're in maybe the one field where it really, truly doesn't matter what your background is--if you make the test suite happy, if you delight the customers, then fuck man, join the team! I think it's time to start setting precedent in our companies that we welcome folks with colorful backgrounds as long as they can ship good code or move product. I worked with a business bro who had a multi-million dollar fine levied by the .gov; he was one of the kindest and sharpest business folks I've had the pleasure of being with, and if I ever have the revenue to justify it I'll try to hire him from my old company. It's time to stop assuming that felons in the US are not worth working with or employing.
- mistercow 13y ago
  Employment is one big chunk of the problems you would face as a felon, but it is not all there is. Also, I don't think software is completely immune. I'm not positive, but there are probably restrictions involving government work. A potential employer would have to consider what doors they were shutting by hiring you.
  - angersock 13y ago
    Most startups probably don't care about security clearances, and if they do, well, I'm sure this is a solved problem.

mpyne 13y ago

This kind of felony would hardly have been the end of the world. Why, I bet it's possible that one could even go on to great success in the tech field, even with (or especially with) a CFAA felony. That's kind of besides the point, because a felony conviction would have been overkill here. But it still would have been much better than the alternative we ended up getting. Let's face it, many hackers have faced felony charges before without killing themselves, and few of them had as much potentially going for them after the trial as Aaron would have.

twoodfin 13y ago

Well it's a "life sentence" that somehow one of YC's founders managed to survive. Not just survive, but become very successful and an MIT professor. I'm not trying to downplay the significance of a felony conviction, but it shouldn't be overplayed either.

sophacles 13y ago
You note the exceptional case. Of course odds of that happening are very low. Hence it is exceptional. Sure - 2% of people survived a fall from the Golden Gate bridge, so that means it's silly to focus on the death aspects of such a fall when reasoning about "if someone does fall". Similarly people occasionally choke to death on food. So we should stop talking about eating without serious choking warnings all over the place, right?
- mpyne 13y ago
  Well let me add another 'exceptional case' then. I worked with a felon who was even able to get a security clearance and a government job and serve on 'special' assignments. Swartz happened to work in one of the very few fields where a CFAA felony is not only not a big deal, but might even be considered a badge of honor. So IMHO the argument that a felony would have been some kind of death sentence for aaronsw definitely requires evidence.
- MichaelSalib 13y ago
  Look, there are people for whom a felony conviction could seriously ruin their life. If you've spent your entire life trying to be a defense attorney, or you long to join the FBI, a felony conviction ends your dreams. Swartz wasn't like that. A felony conviction would have prevented him from working at IBM but he wasn't going to do that anyway. For all possible jobs he could have gotten before, a felony conviction would have been a badge of honor or irrelevant.
raldi 13y ago
Aaron's friend and colleague Kevin Poulsen also bounced back pretty darn well from his felony conviction and prison sentence.

angersock 13y ago

So, this is an interesting thing, right? We're in maybe the one field where it really, truly doesn't matter what your background is--if you make the test suite happy, if you delight the customers, then fuck man, join the team! I think it's time to start setting precedent in our companies that we welcome folks with colorful backgrounds as long as they can ship good code or move product. I worked with a business bro who had a multi-million dollar fine levied by the .gov; he was one of the kindest and sharpest business folks I've had the pleasure of being with, and if I ever have the revenue to justify it I'll try to hire him from my old company. It's time to stop assuming that felons in the US are not worth working with or employing.

mistercow 13y ago
Employment is one big chunk of the problems you would face as a felon, but it is not all there is. Also, I don't think software is completely immune. I'm not positive, but there are probably restrictions involving government work. A potential employer would have to consider what doors they were shutting by hiring you.
- angersock 13y ago
  Most startups probably don't care about security clearances, and if they do, well, I'm sure this is a solved problem.