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The Guardian as a UK-orientated news entity is/was on the death march. When they re-tooled their printing press a few years ago they said quite openly it would

by dotBen 13y ago

The Guardian as a UK-orientated news entity is/was on the death march. When they re-tooled their printing press a few years ago they said quite openly it would be the last printing press they would ever buy. Guardian has been making a loss for years [1] in the difficult UK market, it's future is as an international orientated news source. I want them to stick around so I welcome the expansion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian (search "loss")

tehwalrus 13y ago
In terms of papers sold, the Graun shifts about 400,000 a day - in contrast, the Daily Mail sells 8,000,000 papers. (the numbers may be a couple of years out of date.) (aside: the majority of voters for all three of the big parties in the UK read the Daily Mail, of them that read a print newspaper.)
- johneth 13y ago
  Actually, a lot fewer newspapers are sold in the UK than that, according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_Unite... It says the Daily Mail has a circulation of about 1.8m daily, the Guardian has a circulation of about 200k daily. The Sun is the most widely bought newspaper, at 2.4m daily, but they're all declining across the board.
- antoko 13y ago
  The Sun has consistently been the biggest daily in the UK for a long time, and I would suggest at least some of the parties have a majority buying that paper, historically the Mirror which comes in 3rd would be considered a more leftist paper (as was the guardian itself) and so would be much more likely to be a favorite amongst Labour voters. The Mail hasn't had daily sales over 4 million this millennium. But since you apparently overestimate the guardians sales by 100% too I guess the point you're making still stands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_Unite...
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    apologies - I was given these numbers while training as a political party's election agent - I didn't know they were that stale!
    - antoko 13y ago
      Thinking about it, they may be talking about readership rather than sales. People can pass around a paper in the break room or family members may read the same paper. I'm not sure how well they can estimate those numbers though. Sales figures obviously give a much more concrete number for comparing paper to paper, but if you're trying to make a comparison to TV viewers or some other type of media maybe the readership numbers are more meaningful.
tsmarsh 13y ago
The Guardian is not designed to make money. It has a budget, but that budget is defined by what it wants to achieve editorially, and that is only loosely to sell more papers. Ultimately it is designed to be "the worlds leading, liberal voice" and most editorial decisions are made with that in mind. The money comes from a trust which is managed by the parent company. That is not to say that it wouldn't like to make a profit. But it doesn't 'need to' to survive as its money is generated by its parent company Guardian News & Media which is then plowed back in the paper and the trust. GNM does very nicely. Until relatively recently it owned the UK arm of AutoTrader. It also owns a lot of local talk radio stations and newspapers which turn a tidy profit. The irony is that many of these sources are more closely aligned politically to the Daily Mail that the Guardian.
- grauniad 13y ago
  How is it really ironic? The Guardian is extremely sociliast in its reporting. That's just not popular. You're not going to make any profit with that political viewpoint. (Although you'll certainly be popular on Reddit, the BBC, and other left leaning communities). To make money, you need to be center / center right to appeal to most people. That's why newspapers like "The Sun" and "Daily Mail" absolutely dwarf "The Gruaniad" in readership. If anything, to me it smacks of hypocracy rather than irony. It would be like a campaign setup to promote vegetarianism, bankrolled by a side venture selling beef burgers.
  - antoko 13y ago
    The Guardian is a broadsheet, not a tabloid. If you want compare it something on the right use the Times or the Telegraph. The tabloid equivalent of a left newspaper (though the terms make much less sense since the tabloids aren't nearly as political) would be the Daily Mirror, and it more than holds its own in the circulation wars.
  - rbehrends 13y ago
    Socialist only by American standards (and, possibly, by the standards of certain Tories who still think of the US as a former British colony). By European standards, the Guardian is a fairly typical center-left newspaper. If you want to look at an actual socialist newspaper in the UK, try the Morning Star [1]. The relative popularity of the Sun and the Daily Mail is best explained by Jim Hacker and friends: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M&t=1m0s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M&t=1m0s In other words, a classical broadsheet vs. tabloid situation. Politics doesn't sell as well as gossip and T&A. [1] http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/ http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/

by dotBen 13y ago

tehwalrus 13y ago

In terms of papers sold, the Graun shifts about 400,000 a day - in contrast, the Daily Mail sells 8,000,000 papers. (the numbers may be a couple of years out of date.) (aside: the majority of voters for all three of the big parties in the UK read the Daily Mail, of them that read a print newspaper.)

johneth 13y ago
Actually, a lot fewer newspapers are sold in the UK than that, according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_Unite... It says the Daily Mail has a circulation of about 1.8m daily, the Guardian has a circulation of about 200k daily. The Sun is the most widely bought newspaper, at 2.4m daily, but they're all declining across the board.
antoko 13y ago
The Sun has consistently been the biggest daily in the UK for a long time, and I would suggest at least some of the parties have a majority buying that paper, historically the Mirror which comes in 3rd would be considered a more leftist paper (as was the guardian itself) and so would be much more likely to be a favorite amongst Labour voters. The Mail hasn't had daily sales over 4 million this millennium. But since you apparently overestimate the guardians sales by 100% too I guess the point you're making still stands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_Unite...
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  apologies - I was given these numbers while training as a political party's election agent - I didn't know they were that stale!
  - antoko 13y ago
    Thinking about it, they may be talking about readership rather than sales. People can pass around a paper in the break room or family members may read the same paper. I'm not sure how well they can estimate those numbers though. Sales figures obviously give a much more concrete number for comparing paper to paper, but if you're trying to make a comparison to TV viewers or some other type of media maybe the readership numbers are more meaningful.

tsmarsh 13y ago

The Guardian is not designed to make money. It has a budget, but that budget is defined by what it wants to achieve editorially, and that is only loosely to sell more papers. Ultimately it is designed to be "the worlds leading, liberal voice" and most editorial decisions are made with that in mind. The money comes from a trust which is managed by the parent company. That is not to say that it wouldn't like to make a profit. But it doesn't 'need to' to survive as its money is generated by its parent company Guardian News & Media which is then plowed back in the paper and the trust. GNM does very nicely. Until relatively recently it owned the UK arm of AutoTrader. It also owns a lot of local talk radio stations and newspapers which turn a tidy profit. The irony is that many of these sources are more closely aligned politically to the Daily Mail that the Guardian.

grauniad 13y ago
How is it really ironic? The Guardian is extremely sociliast in its reporting. That's just not popular. You're not going to make any profit with that political viewpoint. (Although you'll certainly be popular on Reddit, the BBC, and other left leaning communities). To make money, you need to be center / center right to appeal to most people. That's why newspapers like "The Sun" and "Daily Mail" absolutely dwarf "The Gruaniad" in readership. If anything, to me it smacks of hypocracy rather than irony. It would be like a campaign setup to promote vegetarianism, bankrolled by a side venture selling beef burgers.
- antoko 13y ago
  The Guardian is a broadsheet, not a tabloid. If you want compare it something on the right use the Times or the Telegraph. The tabloid equivalent of a left newspaper (though the terms make much less sense since the tabloids aren't nearly as political) would be the Daily Mirror, and it more than holds its own in the circulation wars.
- rbehrends 13y ago
  Socialist only by American standards (and, possibly, by the standards of certain Tories who still think of the US as a former British colony). By European standards, the Guardian is a fairly typical center-left newspaper. If you want to look at an actual socialist newspaper in the UK, try the Morning Star [1]. The relative popularity of the Sun and the Daily Mail is best explained by Jim Hacker and friends: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M&t=1m0s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M&t=1m0s In other words, a classical broadsheet vs. tabloid situation. Politics doesn't sell as well as gossip and T&A. [1] http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/ http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/