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There seems to be a general Scandinavian/Nordic idealism pervasive across the internet amongst young westerners. Countless reddit threads extol the glories of l

by joonix 13y ago

There seems to be a general Scandinavian/Nordic idealism pervasive across the internet amongst young westerners. Countless reddit threads extol the glories of living in one of these countries. Young people facing the stressors of capitalism perk up at the thought of all that "free stuff." Free healthcare! Free leave! Free breakfast! etc etc. They never end up even visiting much less living there and realizing they could probably never stay there long term. Growing up in America, you are going to have a hard time acclimating to the lifestyle and culture of these countries.

johnchristopher 13y ago
I am interested. What are the biggest and most significant differences between american and scandinavian/nordic lifestyle and culture in your opinion ?
- cmdkeen 13y ago
  The Economist did an article on Swedish state provided childcare a while back. Cheap nurseries provide by the state are a boon, but also teach what it is to be a Swedish citizen. Immigrants especially are highly incentivised to send their children to state nurseries through welfare payments being dependant upon it. So there's a very communitarian mindset that is inculcated from an early age in Scandinavian children. The recent story on here around attitudes and how the USA is much more individually minded compared to Europe in general is magnified. So the famous liberalism of Scandinavia is built on a single, illiberal act by the state which then sets up its citizens to have freedom. Whereas other countries allow parents to raise children in much more varied ways, you end up with more diversity but that can produce some nasty results.
  - mjn 13y ago
    My experience growing up in the U.S. was that there is a strong desire to inculcate a certain Americanness there as well, and resistance to people failing to integrate and adopt it, though it might not be to the same extent. As a superficial but very visible aspect, we started each day in elementary school by saying a Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag. There was also a strong focus on American civics and history throughout schooling, often with a general tone of American exceptionalism, and a normative view of what it means to be an American. In high school in Texas, this was even supplemented by a normative view of what it means to be a Texan, though those of us not from Nth-generation Texan families tended not to take that part seriously by that age. As far as schooling goes, Denmark is more liberal than the U.S. when it comes to choice, because there are school vouchers (not sure if true in Sweden). If you prefer not to use the state system, you can get a voucher equal to the prorated per-student cost of public education, to spend on private education instead. One of my colleagues uses this to send her daughter to an English-language school, rather than a Danish-language school. The U.S. doesn't have any similar program that will let you choose a Spanish-language school over an English-language school (and there is huge political pressure against Spanish-language schooling, because it is seen as a failure to integrate into proper Americanness).
  - mietek 13y ago
    Perhaps you've heard that the UK prime minister has declared the state policy of multiculturalism as failed. Looks like nurseres teaching English values might've been a better idea.
  - adamauckland 13y ago
    Until recently Sweden also had mandatory national service. They also don't recognise dual-nationality. As with most Western European countries, they struggle with immigration. Although this all sounds a little bit communist and making everyone the same, they have a massive music industry export, so they're not losing creativity.
    - lysa 13y ago
      Actually Sweden does recognise dual citizenship. http://www.migrationsverket.se/info/399_en.html http://www.migrationsverket.se/info/399_en.html Also you might want to learn the difference between communism and socialism as you have it all wrong currently.
      - mjn 13y ago
        Yes, it's common for immigrants employed in Copenhagen to chose to live in Malmö and commute, because the Swedish path to citizenship is nicer: it's shorter, and doesn't require them to give up other citizenships. This has annoyed the more nationalist part of the Danish political scene, who see it as a loophole.
mjn 13y ago
I moved from the U.S. to Denmark 2 1/2 years ago and so far am liking it. The healthcare really does work without me having to shop for complex insurance packages! I really do get 6 weeks/year in vacation! People really do work 37-hour work weeks! There really are good arts grants if you want to bootstrap your indie-game or film company! (And a good safety net so you don't end up homeless if your company fails.) It hasn't been a bad experience at all. Why should I have trouble acclimatizing to the culture? The only thing really difficult to acclimatize to is the language, which is hard to speak (though easy to read/write). And to some extent the weather. But Copenhagen in particular is incredibly easy to live in as a foreigner. And it is diverse enough that culture-wise you can hang out with whoever you want to, more or less; my social group includes a number of Germans, some Spaniards, some Danes, some Arabs, some Greeks, some Swedes, and some Koreans.
- willvarfar 13y ago
  I moved to Sweden from Britain 10 years ago and all its all truly rosy in Sweden too. I hope the BBC succeeds in nordicising Britain!
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
Dewie 13y ago
> There seems to be a general Scandinavian/Nordic idealism pervasive across the internet amongst young westerners. Seems a little more well-researched than the hopes and dreams of young westerners to go on a roadtrip, study or live and work in America based on watching 100 Hollywood movies.

by joonix 13y ago

johnchristopher 13y ago

I am interested. What are the biggest and most significant differences between american and scandinavian/nordic lifestyle and culture in your opinion ?

cmdkeen 13y ago
The Economist did an article on Swedish state provided childcare a while back. Cheap nurseries provide by the state are a boon, but also teach what it is to be a Swedish citizen. Immigrants especially are highly incentivised to send their children to state nurseries through welfare payments being dependant upon it. So there's a very communitarian mindset that is inculcated from an early age in Scandinavian children. The recent story on here around attitudes and how the USA is much more individually minded compared to Europe in general is magnified. So the famous liberalism of Scandinavia is built on a single, illiberal act by the state which then sets up its citizens to have freedom. Whereas other countries allow parents to raise children in much more varied ways, you end up with more diversity but that can produce some nasty results.
- mjn 13y ago
  My experience growing up in the U.S. was that there is a strong desire to inculcate a certain Americanness there as well, and resistance to people failing to integrate and adopt it, though it might not be to the same extent. As a superficial but very visible aspect, we started each day in elementary school by saying a Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag. There was also a strong focus on American civics and history throughout schooling, often with a general tone of American exceptionalism, and a normative view of what it means to be an American. In high school in Texas, this was even supplemented by a normative view of what it means to be a Texan, though those of us not from Nth-generation Texan families tended not to take that part seriously by that age. As far as schooling goes, Denmark is more liberal than the U.S. when it comes to choice, because there are school vouchers (not sure if true in Sweden). If you prefer not to use the state system, you can get a voucher equal to the prorated per-student cost of public education, to spend on private education instead. One of my colleagues uses this to send her daughter to an English-language school, rather than a Danish-language school. The U.S. doesn't have any similar program that will let you choose a Spanish-language school over an English-language school (and there is huge political pressure against Spanish-language schooling, because it is seen as a failure to integrate into proper Americanness).
- mietek 13y ago
  Perhaps you've heard that the UK prime minister has declared the state policy of multiculturalism as failed. Looks like nurseres teaching English values might've been a better idea.
- adamauckland 13y ago
  Until recently Sweden also had mandatory national service. They also don't recognise dual-nationality. As with most Western European countries, they struggle with immigration. Although this all sounds a little bit communist and making everyone the same, they have a massive music industry export, so they're not losing creativity.
  - lysa 13y ago
    Actually Sweden does recognise dual citizenship. http://www.migrationsverket.se/info/399_en.html http://www.migrationsverket.se/info/399_en.html Also you might want to learn the difference between communism and socialism as you have it all wrong currently.
    - mjn 13y ago
      Yes, it's common for immigrants employed in Copenhagen to chose to live in Malmö and commute, because the Swedish path to citizenship is nicer: it's shorter, and doesn't require them to give up other citizenships. This has annoyed the more nationalist part of the Danish political scene, who see it as a loophole.

mjn 13y ago

I moved from the U.S. to Denmark 2 1/2 years ago and so far am liking it. The healthcare really does work without me having to shop for complex insurance packages! I really do get 6 weeks/year in vacation! People really do work 37-hour work weeks! There really are good arts grants if you want to bootstrap your indie-game or film company! (And a good safety net so you don't end up homeless if your company fails.) It hasn't been a bad experience at all. Why should I have trouble acclimatizing to the culture? The only thing really difficult to acclimatize to is the language, which is hard to speak (though easy to read/write). And to some extent the weather. But Copenhagen in particular is incredibly easy to live in as a foreigner. And it is diverse enough that culture-wise you can hang out with whoever you want to, more or less; my social group includes a number of Germans, some Spaniards, some Danes, some Arabs, some Greeks, some Swedes, and some Koreans.

willvarfar 13y ago
I moved to Sweden from Britain 10 years ago and all its all truly rosy in Sweden too. I hope the BBC succeeds in nordicising Britain!
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

Dewie 13y ago

> There seems to be a general Scandinavian/Nordic idealism pervasive across the internet amongst young westerners. Seems a little more well-researched than the hopes and dreams of young westerners to go on a roadtrip, study or live and work in America based on watching 100 Hollywood movies.