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A friend of mine has a colleague that deliberately uses C++ in an introductory CS class to "thin the herd" of students he has to teach.

greyfade 13y ago
That it will do.
hvs 13y ago
CS125 at UIUC was taught in Scheme (using the SICP book no less) as the first course in CS and it did a pretty thorough job of separating the wheat from the chaff.
- zerohp 13y ago
  It is now taught in Java while the data structures class (225) is C++. The Computer Engineering curriculum is going the other way and now teaches computer architecture, assembly, and C (in that order) before sending students over to the CS department for data structures. Former TAs tell me that CompE students find CS 225 to be much easier than Computer Science students.
  - hvs 13y ago
    I can imagine. Just for reference, I graduated in '98, so things have probably changed quite a bit since I was there. Every class after CS125 used C++ (except AI, which was in Lisp), but C++98 was still in committee and the STL wasn't really available (templates existed, though). So it really was more like "C with Classes" than modern C++. I wonder if CS373 is still destroyer of students that it was in my day. The average score (before the curve) was around 40%.
- rayiner 13y ago
  Ah yes. Intro classes, where the point isn't to teach people but sort out the ones you don't have to teach.
alphamethyl 13y ago
i hear stuff like this all the time. all it accomplishes is to make CS a field of very similar people that happen to have the required mental models for entry. it's ridiculous. other fields don't have this arrogant "you either get it or you don't" attitude. even math, the most opaque of opaque subjects, tries to dampen the learning curve to thinking like a mathematician. most kids that weren't living their childhoods on a computer simply don't understand how to think about computers and programming. to deny them entry to your field because they can't figure out how pointers work is toxic - especially when introductory CS classes are huge and students don't get much one on one help. programmers that think like programmers are a dime a dozen. programmers with more diverse mental models are the ones that innovate, even if it takes them longer to grok programming.
- fsck--off 13y ago
  I agree with you. This method does drive away many talented young people from programming, and it does create CS culture issues several years later when all of the graduates think the same way.

greyfade 13y ago

That it will do.

hvs 13y ago

CS125 at UIUC was taught in Scheme (using the SICP book no less) as the first course in CS and it did a pretty thorough job of separating the wheat from the chaff.

zerohp 13y ago
It is now taught in Java while the data structures class (225) is C++. The Computer Engineering curriculum is going the other way and now teaches computer architecture, assembly, and C (in that order) before sending students over to the CS department for data structures. Former TAs tell me that CompE students find CS 225 to be much easier than Computer Science students.
- hvs 13y ago
  I can imagine. Just for reference, I graduated in '98, so things have probably changed quite a bit since I was there. Every class after CS125 used C++ (except AI, which was in Lisp), but C++98 was still in committee and the STL wasn't really available (templates existed, though). So it really was more like "C with Classes" than modern C++. I wonder if CS373 is still destroyer of students that it was in my day. The average score (before the curve) was around 40%.
rayiner 13y ago
Ah yes. Intro classes, where the point isn't to teach people but sort out the ones you don't have to teach.

alphamethyl 13y ago

i hear stuff like this all the time. all it accomplishes is to make CS a field of very similar people that happen to have the required mental models for entry. it's ridiculous. other fields don't have this arrogant "you either get it or you don't" attitude. even math, the most opaque of opaque subjects, tries to dampen the learning curve to thinking like a mathematician. most kids that weren't living their childhoods on a computer simply don't understand how to think about computers and programming. to deny them entry to your field because they can't figure out how pointers work is toxic - especially when introductory CS classes are huge and students don't get much one on one help. programmers that think like programmers are a dime a dozen. programmers with more diverse mental models are the ones that innovate, even if it takes them longer to grok programming.

fsck--off 13y ago
I agree with you. This method does drive away many talented young people from programming, and it does create CS culture issues several years later when all of the graduates think the same way.