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> If I get a "who had this IP at this time?" request, well, I don't know, sorry. Deal with it. Who posted this fantasy about raping a woman that has now gone m

> If I get a "who had this IP at this time?" request, well, I don't know, sorry. Deal with it. Who posted this fantasy about raping a woman that has now gone missing? Oh well I don't know. Deal with it. Your smug attitude seems less impressive when you apply it to a real situation.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
icebraining 13y ago
To be a real situation, it has to have actually happened. Do you have any example of such?
- hahainternet 13y ago
  Nothing I can reveal publicly, but if you look at statistics for searches of emails etc it is quite a common thing investigating someone's wherabouts. Missing, kidnapped or wanted, the tools and requirements are the same.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    Where could I find such statistics, please? I'm struggling to find the right keywords.
    - hahainternet 13y ago
      I have to say I'm having trouble finding the information. I've definitely seen statistics made public before now but I'm at a loss to provide them. Suffice to say though that unless you believe these situations don't exist, they are a legitimate reason to be able to search emails. If someone has been missing for a week, their phone records and email records and browsing history are probably the best possible clues that exist.
      - icebraining 13y ago
        I find it hard to believe that the IP logs were ever the only option of identifying the perpetrator of any such crime, yes. People usually have emails with other kind of ID, usually much more reliable than an IP.
bowmessage 13y ago
This is the same 'Think of the women and children!!!' argument that hasn't ever been a valid excuse for surveillance.
- hahainternet 13y ago
  Where is your historical opposition to phone records, or search warrants or any of the other tools of surveillance and investigation used in crime?
- dwild 13y ago
  Who are talking about surveillance? We are talking about identification of an IP adress. If they were asking for everything his user has done in the past century, and a direct fiber to every data... it would be surveillance but who were using a single ip during a single moment, this is not surveillance.
zimbatm 13y ago
Not everyone is ready to concede their freedom for relative security. Security is only good as long as the government isn't corrupt. The exact same mechanism that can help find this victim also grants the government with more power which in turn can be used to create other victims.
- hahainternet 13y ago
  > Not everyone is ready to concede their freedom for relative security. Yes they are, every single one of us lives in a society with a police force, with restrictions on ownership of everything from firearms to particular types of plant. Don't give me this idealistic nonsense, the fact is that we are all willing to concede freedoms.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    Does anyone have an option of living in a society without a police force? Not that I would, but it seems misleading to claim that we are necessarily willing and/or ready when there is no real choice.
    - hahainternet 13y ago
      It's an interesting question really, and it's not as simple as a binary choice. Fundamentally to have a functional society you need to have regulations, an authoritative hierarchy of some form (even if it's direct democracy) and a way to physically coerce those who do not obey rules. The idea that this isn't a sacrifice of freedom would also be misleading, as it certainly is. When people say they won't sacrifice freedom I see it as just ignorant of the struggle and hardship required to establish the regulations that allow for an actual free society. I could go on for hours, but won't.
      - icebraining 13y ago
        There's a very large body of political philosophy that disagrees with your fundamental assertion, though. Not everyone agrees with the Hobbesian notion of the state of permanent war in the lack of a State, or that such top-down authority is inevitable, even if they are acquainted with the argument in its favor. In any case, that may make someone misguided, but not necessarily willing.
knowaveragejoe 13y ago
I think the hypothetical niche of technologically savvy rapists trying to remain anonymous and untracable, yet willing to post rape fantasies in a (presumably) public forum is pretty small. Definitely not large enough to warrant logging everything. Additionally, you're implying that's the be-all-end-all lead on that case.
- hahainternet 13y ago
  In this analogy the rapist would not be technologically savvy, just a regular internet user who is now undetectable because an ignorant person in the middle assumed removing logs was a good thing. I'm not assuming that this would happen regularly, I'm just laughing at the idea that not keeping logs is actually going to help or protect anyone, when in reality it's just likely to hurt.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

icebraining 13y ago

To be a real situation, it has to have actually happened. Do you have any example of such?

hahainternet 13y ago
Nothing I can reveal publicly, but if you look at statistics for searches of emails etc it is quite a common thing investigating someone's wherabouts. Missing, kidnapped or wanted, the tools and requirements are the same.
- icebraining 13y ago
  Where could I find such statistics, please? I'm struggling to find the right keywords.
  - hahainternet 13y ago
    I have to say I'm having trouble finding the information. I've definitely seen statistics made public before now but I'm at a loss to provide them. Suffice to say though that unless you believe these situations don't exist, they are a legitimate reason to be able to search emails. If someone has been missing for a week, their phone records and email records and browsing history are probably the best possible clues that exist.
    - icebraining 13y ago
      I find it hard to believe that the IP logs were ever the only option of identifying the perpetrator of any such crime, yes. People usually have emails with other kind of ID, usually much more reliable than an IP.

bowmessage 13y ago

This is the same 'Think of the women and children!!!' argument that hasn't ever been a valid excuse for surveillance.

hahainternet 13y ago
Where is your historical opposition to phone records, or search warrants or any of the other tools of surveillance and investigation used in crime?
dwild 13y ago
Who are talking about surveillance? We are talking about identification of an IP adress. If they were asking for everything his user has done in the past century, and a direct fiber to every data... it would be surveillance but who were using a single ip during a single moment, this is not surveillance.

zimbatm 13y ago

Not everyone is ready to concede their freedom for relative security. Security is only good as long as the government isn't corrupt. The exact same mechanism that can help find this victim also grants the government with more power which in turn can be used to create other victims.

hahainternet 13y ago
> Not everyone is ready to concede their freedom for relative security. Yes they are, every single one of us lives in a society with a police force, with restrictions on ownership of everything from firearms to particular types of plant. Don't give me this idealistic nonsense, the fact is that we are all willing to concede freedoms.
- icebraining 13y ago
  Does anyone have an option of living in a society without a police force? Not that I would, but it seems misleading to claim that we are necessarily willing and/or ready when there is no real choice.
  - hahainternet 13y ago
    It's an interesting question really, and it's not as simple as a binary choice. Fundamentally to have a functional society you need to have regulations, an authoritative hierarchy of some form (even if it's direct democracy) and a way to physically coerce those who do not obey rules. The idea that this isn't a sacrifice of freedom would also be misleading, as it certainly is. When people say they won't sacrifice freedom I see it as just ignorant of the struggle and hardship required to establish the regulations that allow for an actual free society. I could go on for hours, but won't.
    - icebraining 13y ago
      There's a very large body of political philosophy that disagrees with your fundamental assertion, though. Not everyone agrees with the Hobbesian notion of the state of permanent war in the lack of a State, or that such top-down authority is inevitable, even if they are acquainted with the argument in its favor. In any case, that may make someone misguided, but not necessarily willing.

knowaveragejoe 13y ago

I think the hypothetical niche of technologically savvy rapists trying to remain anonymous and untracable, yet willing to post rape fantasies in a (presumably) public forum is pretty small. Definitely not large enough to warrant logging everything. Additionally, you're implying that's the be-all-end-all lead on that case.

hahainternet 13y ago
In this analogy the rapist would not be technologically savvy, just a regular internet user who is now undetectable because an ignorant person in the middle assumed removing logs was a good thing. I'm not assuming that this would happen regularly, I'm just laughing at the idea that not keeping logs is actually going to help or protect anyone, when in reality it's just likely to hurt.