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To protect your own national interests, not to promote world peace. Let's cut out this "we love freedom so much that we feel the need to share it with the rest

To protect your own national interests, not to promote world peace. Let's cut out this "we love freedom so much that we feel the need to share it with the rest of the world". I'm getting sick of the empty platitudes and the propaganda getting spouted like this. Just save it. Now, before anyone says that Europeans have inflicted much more violence on the world over the course of history, I do agree with that. As a civilization, we've done some really atrocious things to various indigenous cultures, each other and even our own citizens at times. The thing is, most of us don't have a problem looking ourselves in the mirror and admitting this. America has done wonderful things for the world and I'm sure everyone is thankful for that. But it doesn't change the fact that it has and still does act like a gang of murderous self serving international criminals. If you can take credit for the good things that you've done, you should also be able to take responsibility for the bad things. No one is perfect and I don't see why Americans get so freaking defensive every time someone points out a flaw with their country. You're not perfect, it's a part of the human condition and just learn to accept it.

rayiner 13y ago
> To protect your own national interests, not to promote world peace. The U.S. does act in its own national interest, but it has taken a broader view of national interest than any major power in modern times. Rhetoric aside, it doesn't act on some abstract love of democracy. Rather, it acts on a practical commitment to preserving the status quo of the ascendency of the western democracies. And that just happens to be in the interest of much of Europe too. > Now, before anyone says that Europeans have inflicted much more violence on the world over the course of history, I do agree with that The tendency in Europe right now is to think that you're outside of history. That the forces that existed in Europe, embroiling it in nearly perpetual war for hundreds of years before World War II no longer exist. I'd posit that this isn't really the case. You're not different or better people now than you ever were. Something else is in play. > No one is perfect and I don't see why Americans get so freaking defensive every time someone points out a flaw with their country. I'm not trying to be defensive. I'm pointing out something Europeans tend to gloss over: it's easy to feel like you've turned the corner on violence and war when the U.S.'s foreign policy just happens to involve clearing all your brush fires for you. Let's not pretend. It's not like Europe doesn't benefit tremendously from U.S. attempts to maintain stability in the middle east and keep the oil flowing. It's not like Europe could afford to spend relatively little on their militaries in the face of continued Russian military power if the U.S. didn't exist as a foil. Going back further, it's not like no European country had anything to do with Vietnam...
lotharbot 13y ago
> Let's cut out this "we love freedom so much that we feel the need to share it with the rest of the world" How about "we realize that freedom tends to lead to positive outcomes not only for those who are being granted freedom, but those they interact with, including us. But even if we don't particularly share in the direct material benefits, we enjoy the warm fuzzy feeling we get from knowing that people in other parts of the world are enjoying certain freedoms we also cherish"? It's not all propaganda and platitudes.

rayiner 13y ago

> To protect your own national interests, not to promote world peace. The U.S. does act in its own national interest, but it has taken a broader view of national interest than any major power in modern times. Rhetoric aside, it doesn't act on some abstract love of democracy. Rather, it acts on a practical commitment to preserving the status quo of the ascendency of the western democracies. And that just happens to be in the interest of much of Europe too. > Now, before anyone says that Europeans have inflicted much more violence on the world over the course of history, I do agree with that The tendency in Europe right now is to think that you're outside of history. That the forces that existed in Europe, embroiling it in nearly perpetual war for hundreds of years before World War II no longer exist. I'd posit that this isn't really the case. You're not different or better people now than you ever were. Something else is in play. > No one is perfect and I don't see why Americans get so freaking defensive every time someone points out a flaw with their country. I'm not trying to be defensive. I'm pointing out something Europeans tend to gloss over: it's easy to feel like you've turned the corner on violence and war when the U.S.'s foreign policy just happens to involve clearing all your brush fires for you. Let's not pretend. It's not like Europe doesn't benefit tremendously from U.S. attempts to maintain stability in the middle east and keep the oil flowing. It's not like Europe could afford to spend relatively little on their militaries in the face of continued Russian military power if the U.S. didn't exist as a foil. Going back further, it's not like no European country had anything to do with Vietnam...

lotharbot 13y ago

> Let's cut out this "we love freedom so much that we feel the need to share it with the rest of the world" How about "we realize that freedom tends to lead to positive outcomes not only for those who are being granted freedom, but those they interact with, including us. But even if we don't particularly share in the direct material benefits, we enjoy the warm fuzzy feeling we get from knowing that people in other parts of the world are enjoying certain freedoms we also cherish"? It's not all propaganda and platitudes.