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Peace? Is this some kind of trolling or are you that ignorant? Pretty much every major conflict in the second half of the 20th century was instigated or at lea

Peace? Is this some kind of trolling or are you that ignorant? Pretty much every major conflict in the second half of the 20th century was instigated or at least participated in by the US (Korea, Vietnam, both Gulf wars, Afghanistan, numerous conflicts in South America and SE Asia where the US tried to topple local governments etc). How about supporting various local militia groups all over the world to fight local regimes (Al-Qaeda and the Taliban come to mind). As for technological inventions, America has definitely given the world the gift of numerous technological breakthroughs in the recent history, but so have other nations, and let's not forget that no nation has ever achieved anything without relying on the foundations laid out by somebody else before them. To quote Isaac Newton, "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants". If it hadn't been for the European civilization, America wouldn't even exist. And likewise, Europeans would still be savage barbarians if it hadn't been for the Roman Empire and Greece beforehand... and those empires would've had nothing without the ancient cultures of Mesopotamia and Egypt. The way the human civilization works is through constant collaboration and migration of human intellect, goods and people. So before you turn this into a pissing contest about how much better the US is than the rest of the world (which you have already done, judging by other posts in this thread), consider what I wrote above.

rayiner 13y ago
> Peace? Is this some kind of trolling or are you that ignorant? Pretty much every major conflict in the second half of the 20th century was instigated or at least participated in by the US (Korea, Vietnam, both Gulf wars, Afghanistan, numerous conflicts in South America and SE Asia where the US tried to topple local governments etc). How about supporting various local militia groups all over the world to fight local regimes (Al-Qaeda and the Taliban come to mind). The U.S. spent decades and trillions of dollars fighting the Soviet Union so Europe didn't have to. You can send the thank-you cards in the mail.
- VexXtreme 13y ago
  To protect your own national interests, not to promote world peace. Let's cut out this "we love freedom so much that we feel the need to share it with the rest of the world". I'm getting sick of the empty platitudes and the propaganda getting spouted like this. Just save it. Now, before anyone says that Europeans have inflicted much more violence on the world over the course of history, I do agree with that. As a civilization, we've done some really atrocious things to various indigenous cultures, each other and even our own citizens at times. The thing is, most of us don't have a problem looking ourselves in the mirror and admitting this. America has done wonderful things for the world and I'm sure everyone is thankful for that. But it doesn't change the fact that it has and still does act like a gang of murderous self serving international criminals. If you can take credit for the good things that you've done, you should also be able to take responsibility for the bad things. No one is perfect and I don't see why Americans get so freaking defensive every time someone points out a flaw with their country. You're not perfect, it's a part of the human condition and just learn to accept it.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    > To protect your own national interests, not to promote world peace. The U.S. does act in its own national interest, but it has taken a broader view of national interest than any major power in modern times. Rhetoric aside, it doesn't act on some abstract love of democracy. Rather, it acts on a practical commitment to preserving the status quo of the ascendency of the western democracies. And that just happens to be in the interest of much of Europe too. > Now, before anyone says that Europeans have inflicted much more violence on the world over the course of history, I do agree with that The tendency in Europe right now is to think that you're outside of history. That the forces that existed in Europe, embroiling it in nearly perpetual war for hundreds of years before World War II no longer exist. I'd posit that this isn't really the case. You're not different or better people now than you ever were. Something else is in play. > No one is perfect and I don't see why Americans get so freaking defensive every time someone points out a flaw with their country. I'm not trying to be defensive. I'm pointing out something Europeans tend to gloss over: it's easy to feel like you've turned the corner on violence and war when the U.S.'s foreign policy just happens to involve clearing all your brush fires for you. Let's not pretend. It's not like Europe doesn't benefit tremendously from U.S. attempts to maintain stability in the middle east and keep the oil flowing. It's not like Europe could afford to spend relatively little on their militaries in the face of continued Russian military power if the U.S. didn't exist as a foil. Going back further, it's not like no European country had anything to do with Vietnam...
  - lotharbot 13y ago
    > Let's cut out this "we love freedom so much that we feel the need to share it with the rest of the world" How about "we realize that freedom tends to lead to positive outcomes not only for those who are being granted freedom, but those they interact with, including us. But even if we don't particularly share in the direct material benefits, we enjoy the warm fuzzy feeling we get from knowing that people in other parts of the world are enjoying certain freedoms we also cherish"? It's not all propaganda and platitudes.
dctoedt 13y ago
> Pretty much every major conflict in the second half of the 20th century was instigated or at least participated in by the US (Korea, Vietnam, both Gulf wars, Afghanistan, numerous conflicts in South America and SE Asia where the US tried to topple local governments etc). .... And pretty much every destructive building fire was instigated or at least participated in by the fire department, and every deadly epidemic was instigated or at least participated in by the medical community. Comparatively speaking, the world has enjoyed almost-unprecedented peace and prosperity since 1945. It's all the more remarkable when you consider the destruction wrought by World War II, together with the relentless drive for conquest by the USSR and other communist states, notably North Korea and North Vietnam. The U.S.'s contributions of blood and treasure were a necessary component of that peace and prosperity; the era really should be called the Pax Americana. Sure, we made some misjudgments along the way, some of them truly terrible. But Colin Powell, former U.S. secretary of state (and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff), put it well [1]: "And when all those conflicts were over, what did we do? Did we stay and conquer? ... No, the only land we ever asked for was enough land to bury our dead." [1] http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Colin_Powell http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Colin_Powell

rayiner 13y ago

> Peace? Is this some kind of trolling or are you that ignorant? Pretty much every major conflict in the second half of the 20th century was instigated or at least participated in by the US (Korea, Vietnam, both Gulf wars, Afghanistan, numerous conflicts in South America and SE Asia where the US tried to topple local governments etc). How about supporting various local militia groups all over the world to fight local regimes (Al-Qaeda and the Taliban come to mind). The U.S. spent decades and trillions of dollars fighting the Soviet Union so Europe didn't have to. You can send the thank-you cards in the mail.

VexXtreme 13y ago
To protect your own national interests, not to promote world peace. Let's cut out this "we love freedom so much that we feel the need to share it with the rest of the world". I'm getting sick of the empty platitudes and the propaganda getting spouted like this. Just save it. Now, before anyone says that Europeans have inflicted much more violence on the world over the course of history, I do agree with that. As a civilization, we've done some really atrocious things to various indigenous cultures, each other and even our own citizens at times. The thing is, most of us don't have a problem looking ourselves in the mirror and admitting this. America has done wonderful things for the world and I'm sure everyone is thankful for that. But it doesn't change the fact that it has and still does act like a gang of murderous self serving international criminals. If you can take credit for the good things that you've done, you should also be able to take responsibility for the bad things. No one is perfect and I don't see why Americans get so freaking defensive every time someone points out a flaw with their country. You're not perfect, it's a part of the human condition and just learn to accept it.
- rayiner 13y ago
  > To protect your own national interests, not to promote world peace. The U.S. does act in its own national interest, but it has taken a broader view of national interest than any major power in modern times. Rhetoric aside, it doesn't act on some abstract love of democracy. Rather, it acts on a practical commitment to preserving the status quo of the ascendency of the western democracies. And that just happens to be in the interest of much of Europe too. > Now, before anyone says that Europeans have inflicted much more violence on the world over the course of history, I do agree with that The tendency in Europe right now is to think that you're outside of history. That the forces that existed in Europe, embroiling it in nearly perpetual war for hundreds of years before World War II no longer exist. I'd posit that this isn't really the case. You're not different or better people now than you ever were. Something else is in play. > No one is perfect and I don't see why Americans get so freaking defensive every time someone points out a flaw with their country. I'm not trying to be defensive. I'm pointing out something Europeans tend to gloss over: it's easy to feel like you've turned the corner on violence and war when the U.S.'s foreign policy just happens to involve clearing all your brush fires for you. Let's not pretend. It's not like Europe doesn't benefit tremendously from U.S. attempts to maintain stability in the middle east and keep the oil flowing. It's not like Europe could afford to spend relatively little on their militaries in the face of continued Russian military power if the U.S. didn't exist as a foil. Going back further, it's not like no European country had anything to do with Vietnam...
- lotharbot 13y ago
  > Let's cut out this "we love freedom so much that we feel the need to share it with the rest of the world" How about "we realize that freedom tends to lead to positive outcomes not only for those who are being granted freedom, but those they interact with, including us. But even if we don't particularly share in the direct material benefits, we enjoy the warm fuzzy feeling we get from knowing that people in other parts of the world are enjoying certain freedoms we also cherish"? It's not all propaganda and platitudes.

dctoedt 13y ago

> Pretty much every major conflict in the second half of the 20th century was instigated or at least participated in by the US (Korea, Vietnam, both Gulf wars, Afghanistan, numerous conflicts in South America and SE Asia where the US tried to topple local governments etc). .... And pretty much every destructive building fire was instigated or at least participated in by the fire department, and every deadly epidemic was instigated or at least participated in by the medical community. Comparatively speaking, the world has enjoyed almost-unprecedented peace and prosperity since 1945. It's all the more remarkable when you consider the destruction wrought by World War II, together with the relentless drive for conquest by the USSR and other communist states, notably North Korea and North Vietnam. The U.S.'s contributions of blood and treasure were a necessary component of that peace and prosperity; the era really should be called the Pax Americana. Sure, we made some misjudgments along the way, some of them truly terrible. But Colin Powell, former U.S. secretary of state (and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff), put it well [1]: "And when all those conflicts were over, what did we do? Did we stay and conquer? ... No, the only land we ever asked for was enough land to bury our dead." [1] http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Colin_Powell http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Colin_Powell