6 ms·

(This has nothing to do with Snowden but Chomsky's main point.) One thing I found troubling about all this is you can't expect the victims in other countries t

by cconroy 13y ago

(This has nothing to do with Snowden but Chomsky's main point.) One thing I found troubling about all this is you can't expect the victims in other countries to decouple the intentions of the American gov't from American citizens. Except (even more troubling) is that citizens seem to support drone warfare (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/10/most-americans-approve-of-foreign-drone-strikes/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/10/m...).

northwest 13y ago
> you can't expect the victims in other countries to decouple the intentions of the American gov't from American citizens. And that is why all these drone wars actually keep the "terrorist" recruiting machine running. A handful of people in the US make huge $$$ on war (the military budgets are surreal, plus, billions are suddenly "lost", etc.). $$$ are a clear incentive for war. This creates new terrorists. These need to be hunted and killed. That means we need to keep the "defense" budget high. And as a bonus, we get a totally transparent citizen.
speeder 13y ago
Frankly, excepting a few circles (like, Hackers) most US citizens I've met support US government positions, even the most stupid ones, maybe out of ignorance... But they do. I remember even once, I was eating in a restaurant in front of my home (literally, it was across the street), and 3 US citizens were talking in english in a nearby table... Their conversation was one of the most horrible things I heard in a while, they were advocating get rid of immigrants, because all immigrants were filthy evil people and deserve to die, and that brazillians were scum, and whatnot (and they were saying that in Brazil). I almost hit one of them in the head, but then I realized they were 3, and I was one, so I decided to just finish my food and leave as quickly as possible. Other encounters with typical US citizens were not much better, reading comments on mainstream newspaper do not make me believe better either. And I cannot count how much times I got into arguments about our US supported dictatorship during the cold war, with US people that believe that I should have thanked the US government for "saving" us. And then, saving from what? And the reply is whatever fake threat of the time (communists, terrorists, muslims, whatever). This get me so much on my nerves that I even started to join random communication channels with US people (like, game chats, site chats, social networks) and provoke them into political arguments, just to check, and yes, many DO believe the US came here to "save" us, it is like if US citizens have some sorta of weird hero complex where they believe that the foreign policy of the US is save everyone. This is something that I never understood properly, how the hell a population can believe such bullshit. Beside other bizarre views (for example frequently I see comments defending that US should just turn North Korea and Iran into glass... Usually when reading reuters.com)
- pessimizer 13y ago
  I don't think the college-educated middle class voting right-wing fascists into government is anything exclusive to the US. Seems pretty universal to me.
- dictum 13y ago
  >it is like if US citizens have some sorta of weird hero complex where they believe that the foreign policy of the US is save everyone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism
- northwest 13y ago
  > I never understood properly, how the hell a population can believe such bullshit. Brainwashing by controlling the media & lack of education, I'd say.

by cconroy 13y ago

northwest 13y ago

> you can't expect the victims in other countries to decouple the intentions of the American gov't from American citizens. And that is why all these drone wars actually keep the "terrorist" recruiting machine running. A handful of people in the US make huge $$$ on war (the military budgets are surreal, plus, billions are suddenly "lost", etc.). $$$ are a clear incentive for war. This creates new terrorists. These need to be hunted and killed. That means we need to keep the "defense" budget high. And as a bonus, we get a totally transparent citizen.

speeder 13y ago

Frankly, excepting a few circles (like, Hackers) most US citizens I've met support US government positions, even the most stupid ones, maybe out of ignorance... But they do. I remember even once, I was eating in a restaurant in front of my home (literally, it was across the street), and 3 US citizens were talking in english in a nearby table... Their conversation was one of the most horrible things I heard in a while, they were advocating get rid of immigrants, because all immigrants were filthy evil people and deserve to die, and that brazillians were scum, and whatnot (and they were saying that in Brazil). I almost hit one of them in the head, but then I realized they were 3, and I was one, so I decided to just finish my food and leave as quickly as possible. Other encounters with typical US citizens were not much better, reading comments on mainstream newspaper do not make me believe better either. And I cannot count how much times I got into arguments about our US supported dictatorship during the cold war, with US people that believe that I should have thanked the US government for "saving" us. And then, saving from what? And the reply is whatever fake threat of the time (communists, terrorists, muslims, whatever). This get me so much on my nerves that I even started to join random communication channels with US people (like, game chats, site chats, social networks) and provoke them into political arguments, just to check, and yes, many DO believe the US came here to "save" us, it is like if US citizens have some sorta of weird hero complex where they believe that the foreign policy of the US is save everyone. This is something that I never understood properly, how the hell a population can believe such bullshit. Beside other bizarre views (for example frequently I see comments defending that US should just turn North Korea and Iran into glass... Usually when reading reuters.com)

pessimizer 13y ago
I don't think the college-educated middle class voting right-wing fascists into government is anything exclusive to the US. Seems pretty universal to me.
dictum 13y ago
>it is like if US citizens have some sorta of weird hero complex where they believe that the foreign policy of the US is save everyone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism
northwest 13y ago
> I never understood properly, how the hell a population can believe such bullshit. Brainwashing by controlling the media & lack of education, I'd say.