7 ms·

Don't just moan about it online - put your money where your mouth is. If you're in the UK, join the OpenRightsGroup https://www.openrightsgroup.org/join/ https

by edent 13y ago

Don't just moan about it online - put your money where your mouth is. If you're in the UK, join the OpenRightsGroup https://www.openrightsgroup.org/join/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/join/

mathgladiator 13y ago
> Don't just moan about it online I think the problem is that not enough people moan/know about it. With this, putting my money where my mouth is may be a very terrible investment. When I read things like this, I think "geez, I'm glad I'm not having children" and "geez, I hope I'll be dead before this actually affects me" (keep in mind, these lines of reasoning are exactly why this will be a problem; so far, nothing has been done to make everyone really angry).
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  People do know about it, but they have the concentration span of a gnat here in the UK. Seriously, whoever is winning one of Cowell's shite-shoveling programs or which piece of dirt is most popular on the reality show of the moment is an instant distraction from having to think about anything or act upon it. The worst bit is these things promote surveillance and make it morally ok. The rest seem to contract our their thinking to the daily mail. No comments needed there.
  - kintamanimatt 13y ago
    So long as there's bread and circus and most Brits are comfortable, they'll happily embrace censorship, surveillance, or whatever else. The only trouble is, The Great Firewall of Ol' Blighty might just trample all over the circus component. At the very least, this is likely to cause younger and traditionally apathetic voters to become more engaged.
    - harrytuttle 13y ago
      I doubt it. The media have already started the conditioning. You know the conditioning that suggests if you're against it, you must want child porn.
      - kintamanimatt 13y ago
        What do you think could be done?
        harrytuttle 13y ago
        Probably nothing. The human race will quite happily walk off a cliff together, apart from a few of us that is. Perhaps we need to just step back and watch it happen, then say "I fucking told you so". I'm not particularly happy with that idea, but I see no other option.
        kintamanimatt 13y ago
        This is a very defeatist attitude! There's always strategies and tactics that work within legal frameworks to defeat censorship. Look at what happened with SOPA in the US. It started with outraged nerds and became embraced by regular people as something sexy to vocally and publicly oppose. Beginning a media campaign in the UK is a good first step. When people understand that The Great Firewall of Ol' Blighty does nothing to stop kiddie porn but instead stops you looking at any site that the current ruling party frowns upon, it falls apart. The "think of the children" and "teh terrorists" arguments need to be universally rejected. Trouble is, this requires one hell of a paradigm shift from the voting public. That begins with soundbite education, and arguments that are easily digestible and repeatable. Look at how evangelicals equip their congregations with soundbite ideas and faulty logic, and then use these strategies for good. (For example, the best I came across was "It's hot today, but hell's hotter!") Perhaps we also need to begin our own political parties, ones unlike the Pirate Party that are not only capable of upholding privacy rights, but are also competent enough to run a democratic government. A less inflammatory or whimsical name would be nice too. Joe Average isn't going to take politicians that call themselves pirates seriously, any more than they'd take a Hacker Party seriously because of its more widespread and incorrect definition! A Snowden Party, perhaps? The logo could be a purple mountain much like the Welsh mountain, Snowdon!
northwest 13y ago
And as a short term solution (assuming VPNs will also be outlawed or otherwise made unattractive), take your pick: http://torrentfreak.com/vpn-services-that-take-your-anonymity-seriously-2013-edition-130302/ http://torrentfreak.com/vpn-services-that-take-your-anonymit... My personal favorite is https://mullvad.net/en/ https://mullvad.net/en/ because: a) not US based, therefor not subject to US laws (both known and secret laws/courts) b) you can send them cash as your payment method (every online payment method such as Paypal, credit card, etc. will establish a link back to you) c) they don't keep logs c) you can easily set up multiple "exit" countries (good for circumventing geoblocking)
- tebuevd 13y ago
  I'm surprised that hide.io isn't on the list. I've been using it and it's extremely fast, has dozens of servers across the world, and is a Hong Kong based company, thus not subject to US laws (but, I suppose can possibly be queried from Beijing).
- vbuterin 13y ago
  > send them cash Or Bitcoin, for that matter.
  - drakeandrews 13y ago
    Except bitcoin establishes a public, permanent and irrefutable link between yourself (or at least information that, except in specific circumstances, can be linked back to yourself) and the provider.
    - vbuterin 13y ago
      That's easy to avoid - just send the money through a mixer like this one https://blockchain.info/wallet/send-shared https://blockchain.info/wallet/send-shared . Or any Bitcoin exchange or gambling site. Or a combination of three or four. Or you can just buy the bitcoins in person.
chunkyslink 13y ago
I've joined with financial support. This is the first time I've heard of these guys, but they look to be doing some great work. Thanks for posting this.
vilya 13y ago
Thanks for the link - it was exactly the prompt I needed. I've just joined up, with a monthly donation.
KaiserPro 13y ago
No, the ORG are not the answer. To the outside world they look like a bunch of nerds who refuse to pay for movies online. This may be unfair, sadly perception is 9/10th of fact. You need to write to your MP and tell him/her that its is insecure, undemocratic and will endanger kids.
- jimkillock 13y ago
  You do need to write to your MP. Is the ORG the answer? In part, of course we are: without us, this discussion wouldn’t be happening. ORG has done the leg work over 2 years on this so has been able to demonstrate that this is more than porn.
rmc 13y ago
It isn't either/or. Do both. Give money and moan.

by edent 13y ago

Don't just moan about it online - put your money where your mouth is. If you're in the UK, join the OpenRightsGroup https://www.openrightsgroup.org/join/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/join/

mathgladiator 13y ago

> Don't just moan about it online I think the problem is that not enough people moan/know about it. With this, putting my money where my mouth is may be a very terrible investment. When I read things like this, I think "geez, I'm glad I'm not having children" and "geez, I hope I'll be dead before this actually affects me" (keep in mind, these lines of reasoning are exactly why this will be a problem; so far, nothing has been done to make everyone really angry).

harrytuttle 13y ago
People do know about it, but they have the concentration span of a gnat here in the UK. Seriously, whoever is winning one of Cowell's shite-shoveling programs or which piece of dirt is most popular on the reality show of the moment is an instant distraction from having to think about anything or act upon it. The worst bit is these things promote surveillance and make it morally ok. The rest seem to contract our their thinking to the daily mail. No comments needed there.
- kintamanimatt 13y ago
  So long as there's bread and circus and most Brits are comfortable, they'll happily embrace censorship, surveillance, or whatever else. The only trouble is, The Great Firewall of Ol' Blighty might just trample all over the circus component. At the very least, this is likely to cause younger and traditionally apathetic voters to become more engaged.
  - harrytuttle 13y ago
    I doubt it. The media have already started the conditioning. You know the conditioning that suggests if you're against it, you must want child porn.
    - kintamanimatt 13y ago
      What do you think could be done?
      - harrytuttle 13y ago
        Probably nothing. The human race will quite happily walk off a cliff together, apart from a few of us that is. Perhaps we need to just step back and watch it happen, then say "I fucking told you so". I'm not particularly happy with that idea, but I see no other option.
        kintamanimatt 13y ago
        This is a very defeatist attitude! There's always strategies and tactics that work within legal frameworks to defeat censorship. Look at what happened with SOPA in the US. It started with outraged nerds and became embraced by regular people as something sexy to vocally and publicly oppose. Beginning a media campaign in the UK is a good first step. When people understand that The Great Firewall of Ol' Blighty does nothing to stop kiddie porn but instead stops you looking at any site that the current ruling party frowns upon, it falls apart. The "think of the children" and "teh terrorists" arguments need to be universally rejected. Trouble is, this requires one hell of a paradigm shift from the voting public. That begins with soundbite education, and arguments that are easily digestible and repeatable. Look at how evangelicals equip their congregations with soundbite ideas and faulty logic, and then use these strategies for good. (For example, the best I came across was "It's hot today, but hell's hotter!") Perhaps we also need to begin our own political parties, ones unlike the Pirate Party that are not only capable of upholding privacy rights, but are also competent enough to run a democratic government. A less inflammatory or whimsical name would be nice too. Joe Average isn't going to take politicians that call themselves pirates seriously, any more than they'd take a Hacker Party seriously because of its more widespread and incorrect definition! A Snowden Party, perhaps? The logo could be a purple mountain much like the Welsh mountain, Snowdon!

northwest 13y ago

And as a short term solution (assuming VPNs will also be outlawed or otherwise made unattractive), take your pick: http://torrentfreak.com/vpn-services-that-take-your-anonymity-seriously-2013-edition-130302/ http://torrentfreak.com/vpn-services-that-take-your-anonymit... My personal favorite is https://mullvad.net/en/ https://mullvad.net/en/ because: a) not US based, therefor not subject to US laws (both known and secret laws/courts) b) you can send them cash as your payment method (every online payment method such as Paypal, credit card, etc. will establish a link back to you) c) they don't keep logs c) you can easily set up multiple "exit" countries (good for circumventing geoblocking)

tebuevd 13y ago
I'm surprised that hide.io isn't on the list. I've been using it and it's extremely fast, has dozens of servers across the world, and is a Hong Kong based company, thus not subject to US laws (but, I suppose can possibly be queried from Beijing).
vbuterin 13y ago
> send them cash Or Bitcoin, for that matter.
- drakeandrews 13y ago
  Except bitcoin establishes a public, permanent and irrefutable link between yourself (or at least information that, except in specific circumstances, can be linked back to yourself) and the provider.
  - vbuterin 13y ago
    That's easy to avoid - just send the money through a mixer like this one https://blockchain.info/wallet/send-shared https://blockchain.info/wallet/send-shared . Or any Bitcoin exchange or gambling site. Or a combination of three or four. Or you can just buy the bitcoins in person.

chunkyslink 13y ago

I've joined with financial support. This is the first time I've heard of these guys, but they look to be doing some great work. Thanks for posting this.

vilya 13y ago

Thanks for the link - it was exactly the prompt I needed. I've just joined up, with a monthly donation.

KaiserPro 13y ago

No, the ORG are not the answer. To the outside world they look like a bunch of nerds who refuse to pay for movies online. This may be unfair, sadly perception is 9/10th of fact. You need to write to your MP and tell him/her that its is insecure, undemocratic and will endanger kids.

jimkillock 13y ago
You do need to write to your MP. Is the ORG the answer? In part, of course we are: without us, this discussion wouldn’t be happening. ORG has done the leg work over 2 years on this so has been able to demonstrate that this is more than porn.

rmc 13y ago

It isn't either/or. Do both. Give money and moan.