8 ms·

It's official: Fez 2 has been cancelled

46 points by JVIDEL 13y ago

da_maire 13y ago
Phil Fish spends as much time trolling for headlines as he does making games. Please don't encourage him.
deletes 13y ago
Link to the video that is the main cause why the game was cancelled: ( Marcus Beers rant starts at about 1:50 ) http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/roj70m/invisible-walls-everything-and-the-kit http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/roj70m/invisible-w... And a great quote from the forums, that summarizes the situation pretty well: >>Hey indies give us clickbait consolewar bullshit comments on demand, or else we'll publicly insult you on video. Meanwhile we'll throw softball questions at any developer working at a major 3rd party because we can't lose access to that previous ad revenue and review copies. What a fucking joke.<<
- velodrome 13y ago
  I don't understand why he killed Fez 2. Channel that frustration towards making a good game.
- AndyKelley 13y ago
  today I learned what a tosspot is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tosspot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tosspot
- skore 13y ago
  I really don't care either way, but I had to stop that video after a minute into the "rant". What a complete and utter waste of air. I've seen Indiegame: The Movie and I will concede that out of the diverse characters displayed only McMillen came across as... psychologically stable. But I also thought every single one of them was intelligent, creative and I respect them for what they do. I cannot fathom what would prompt somebody with a megaphone like a recurring show on gametrailers to see a need to indulge in such a useless rant. All I saw in that video was somebody who tried very hard to force his own personality on others and then justify it by stooping to lower and lower levels of abuse. The term is overused, but: That's simply bullying in its plainest form. What a shame. "Crass and hurtful behavior is not acceptable, in my opinion. Calling it "opinions" is denial." -Jonathan Blow https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/361349255404863488 https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/361349255404863488
- mathgladiator 13y ago
  That's a terrible video; it's unprofessional at the least. The comments are http://polytroncorporation.com/fez-ii-cancelled http://polytroncorporation.com/fez-ii-cancelled just make me sad. Stuff like this is one the reason that the internet makes me sad. Instead of emotions being private, they spread like a virus; fortunately (I hope), phil has a lot of money to weather this.
  - NotUncivil 13y ago
    Don't get upset at the comments. They almost surely trolling from https://boards.4chan.org/v/ https://boards.4chan.org/v/ (NSFW). Look at, e.g., https://boards.4chan.org/v/res/202172198 https://boards.4chan.org/v/res/202172198.
    - beaumartinez 13y ago
      Yes. It's very sad that /v/ has it in for Fish. I thoroughly enjoyed Fez, and IMO it's up there with some of the best. He might be a bit of a dick, but so was Steve Jobs. Interesting how Jobs is reveared and yet Fish is despised—perhaps it has to do with the "maturity" of the respective "fan clubs".
      - emiljbs 13y ago
        Trust me, a lot of people dislike Steve Jobs immensely.
    - ferongr 13y ago
      I don't see any indications of coordinated trolling in that thread but rather, a lively discussion about Fish, his antics and Fez.
barbs 13y ago
I feel really sorry for him. On the other hand, I'm hoping this means we'll see linux and mac ports of the original game sooner rather than later :D
AndyKelley 13y ago
I'm curious how this divide even occurred. Why have we even decided to decide whether to like or hate this guy?
- interpol_p 13y ago
  There was an incident a while back where Phil Fish was on a panel and was asked a question by a Japanese game developer. The question was prefaced by saying many indie games are inspired by older Japanese games, and the game developer asked what Fish thought of modern Japanese games. Fish's response was "Your games just suck." It was an incredibly rude response. A lot of people don't like Fish since that incident. It doesn't help that he's incredibly sensitive and rude in his public comments (that is, he seems to be able to hand out criticism, but not accept it with grace.)
  - AndyKelley 13y ago
    Okay I watched the video. The response was rude perhaps, but also blunt and honest. It wasn't attack against that person, or even Japanese games in general. It was an attack against a specific type of game genre that is allegedly prevalent in Japan. At maximum I would call this a social faux pas. Certainly not something deserving of bullying. If I were asking the question, I would actually value that response. Here's someone who is willing to be honest with me instead of using generic political speak.
    - interpol_p 13y ago
      Yeah I believe that's what started it, but I think what rubs people the wrong way is that here is this guy that (as you say) is bluntly honest — to the point of being rude — to people. Yet when people are bluntly honest with him, he reacts very negatively. Edit: You say "bullying," but I would suggest that he maintains his online persona in such a way as to generate controversy. He comes off as very abrasive, even annoying, at times. I felt that he specifically tries to spur such reactions with his comments.
      - 13y ago
archagon 13y ago
I truly feel sorry for Phil Fish. He may have said some silly things in the past, but literally EVERY time something news-worthy about him comes up, the internet explodes with thousands of vitriolic comments about how much of a dick he is. Just look at the comments on Reddit, RPS, or any mainstream news site. They're abhorrent. This has been going on in full-force pretty much since GDC12, when the "Japanese games" incident happened. Fish asked on Twitter for people to please stop treating him like this a few months ago. It's only gotten worse since then. At this point, it's clear that this stuff is weighing on him pretty heavily. I don't think anyone deserves to be treated like this, regardless of how they handle their online presence. I mean, it's basically cyber-bullying at this point. I wish people would realize that there's another person on the other end of the line who is actually suffering because of their comments. (Hoping to get this in before the Fish-bashing inevitably starts here as well.)
- nikster 13y ago
  I guess he's learning to have thicker skin. It requires only one insight - that what people say about you, what they think about you, is not reality. Understand this deeply, and nobody will be able to insult you anymore. You'll realize that insults are all in your mind. You control your mind so - poof! There they go, the insults! They're as important as thinking about a cat sleeping on top of a dog. Just another thought of no particular consequence.
  - vanderZwan 13y ago
    I'm sorry, but that is incredibly shortsighted, and I wonder if you have ever been on the receiving end of bullying if you believe that. Because I have, and I had to deal with bullshit like this coming from people who could have intervened. Yes, people who are bullied often respond overly sensitive. That's not because they need to grow a thicker skin, it's because the damn skin has been flogged away by incessant bullying - and that has to stop first before they can recover properly. And yes, technically speaking we are just a collection of atoms in a specific configurations, but in the end that doesn't say anything meaningful about what makes us human or what makes us "tick". At the end of the day, we are a social species, hardwired to function by looking for approval from others, and especially from those we hold in high regard. That's what makes us tick, unless you're a sociopath. If you are a passionate creator of games, I'm pretty sure that you care about what the games industry says about you. And saying "well, if the games industry treats you like shit that just means they're asshats" isn't helping. That's saying "oh, that thing you care about so much? That's bullshit!" Oh great, thanks, not only does the community surrounding the very thing I care about treat me in a way that makes me feel miserable, now I'm being told I'm a double idiot for caring about their opinion in the first place! XKCD summed it up perfectly: http://xkcd.com/1216/ http://xkcd.com/1216/
hackapreneur 13y ago
True definition of rage quit. Game over.
pearjuice 13y ago
He runs off with the money just like that? Was it kickstarted?
- Ygg2 13y ago
  Umm, no. He just announced it afaik. He probably means "I'll take all the FEZ money and I'm going home". It's the proverbial kid taking his ball home.
Ygg2 13y ago
On this topic my thoughts are divided. Phil Fish didn't deserve to be covered in vitriol and repeatedly flamed and insulted as he did. He is a dedicated, hard working and creative individual that has enriched the gaming with Fez, which is a oh so wonderful and delightful puzzle game. I love that game to bits. That said, I definitely see how he could have triggered all the ire that is directed at him. He is as a previously commenter rightly noted, well known for engaging in similarly rude and insulting mouthing-off matches. So it's a bad combination of being able to dish out insults but not take any. While I do have some sympathy for him, I tend to disassociate him from his work, simply because of his 'persona'.
- incision 13y ago
  I tend agree with you. I see the behavior of Fish and his detractor as symptoms of the same cocky entitlement and nastiness that is so terribly common gaming culture.
edcastro 13y ago
I don't really feel sorry for Phil. People are being mean to him? Yes, definitely. But the other way around is well known to be done. Phil is usually, put mildly, blunt when talking about other people. Guess it's just karma.

46 points by JVIDEL 13y ago

Phil Fish spends as much time trolling for headlines as he does making games. Please don't encourage him.

Link to the video that is the main cause why the game was cancelled: ( Marcus Beers rant starts at about 1:50 ) http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/roj70m/invisible-walls-everything-and-the-kit http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/roj70m/invisible-w... And a great quote from the forums, that summarizes the situation pretty well: >>Hey indies give us clickbait consolewar bullshit comments on demand, or else we'll publicly insult you on video. Meanwhile we'll throw softball questions at any developer working at a major 3rd party because we can't lose access to that previous ad revenue and review copies. What a fucking joke.<<

velodrome 13y ago
I don't understand why he killed Fez 2. Channel that frustration towards making a good game.
AndyKelley 13y ago
today I learned what a tosspot is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tosspot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tosspot
skore 13y ago
I really don't care either way, but I had to stop that video after a minute into the "rant". What a complete and utter waste of air. I've seen Indiegame: The Movie and I will concede that out of the diverse characters displayed only McMillen came across as... psychologically stable. But I also thought every single one of them was intelligent, creative and I respect them for what they do. I cannot fathom what would prompt somebody with a megaphone like a recurring show on gametrailers to see a need to indulge in such a useless rant. All I saw in that video was somebody who tried very hard to force his own personality on others and then justify it by stooping to lower and lower levels of abuse. The term is overused, but: That's simply bullying in its plainest form. What a shame. "Crass and hurtful behavior is not acceptable, in my opinion. Calling it "opinions" is denial." -Jonathan Blow https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/361349255404863488 https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/361349255404863488
mathgladiator 13y ago
That's a terrible video; it's unprofessional at the least. The comments are http://polytroncorporation.com/fez-ii-cancelled http://polytroncorporation.com/fez-ii-cancelled just make me sad. Stuff like this is one the reason that the internet makes me sad. Instead of emotions being private, they spread like a virus; fortunately (I hope), phil has a lot of money to weather this.
- NotUncivil 13y ago
  Don't get upset at the comments. They almost surely trolling from https://boards.4chan.org/v/ https://boards.4chan.org/v/ (NSFW). Look at, e.g., https://boards.4chan.org/v/res/202172198 https://boards.4chan.org/v/res/202172198.
  - beaumartinez 13y ago
    Yes. It's very sad that /v/ has it in for Fish. I thoroughly enjoyed Fez, and IMO it's up there with some of the best. He might be a bit of a dick, but so was Steve Jobs. Interesting how Jobs is reveared and yet Fish is despised—perhaps it has to do with the "maturity" of the respective "fan clubs".
    - emiljbs 13y ago
      Trust me, a lot of people dislike Steve Jobs immensely.
  - ferongr 13y ago
    I don't see any indications of coordinated trolling in that thread but rather, a lively discussion about Fish, his antics and Fez.

barbs 13y ago

I feel really sorry for him. On the other hand, I'm hoping this means we'll see linux and mac ports of the original game sooner rather than later :D

AndyKelley 13y ago

I'm curious how this divide even occurred. Why have we even decided to decide whether to like or hate this guy?

interpol_p 13y ago
There was an incident a while back where Phil Fish was on a panel and was asked a question by a Japanese game developer. The question was prefaced by saying many indie games are inspired by older Japanese games, and the game developer asked what Fish thought of modern Japanese games. Fish's response was "Your games just suck." It was an incredibly rude response. A lot of people don't like Fish since that incident. It doesn't help that he's incredibly sensitive and rude in his public comments (that is, he seems to be able to hand out criticism, but not accept it with grace.)
- AndyKelley 13y ago
  Okay I watched the video. The response was rude perhaps, but also blunt and honest. It wasn't attack against that person, or even Japanese games in general. It was an attack against a specific type of game genre that is allegedly prevalent in Japan. At maximum I would call this a social faux pas. Certainly not something deserving of bullying. If I were asking the question, I would actually value that response. Here's someone who is willing to be honest with me instead of using generic political speak.
  - interpol_p 13y ago
    Yeah I believe that's what started it, but I think what rubs people the wrong way is that here is this guy that (as you say) is bluntly honest — to the point of being rude — to people. Yet when people are bluntly honest with him, he reacts very negatively. Edit: You say "bullying," but I would suggest that he maintains his online persona in such a way as to generate controversy. He comes off as very abrasive, even annoying, at times. I felt that he specifically tries to spur such reactions with his comments.
    - 13y ago

archagon 13y ago

I truly feel sorry for Phil Fish. He may have said some silly things in the past, but literally EVERY time something news-worthy about him comes up, the internet explodes with thousands of vitriolic comments about how much of a dick he is. Just look at the comments on Reddit, RPS, or any mainstream news site. They're abhorrent. This has been going on in full-force pretty much since GDC12, when the "Japanese games" incident happened. Fish asked on Twitter for people to please stop treating him like this a few months ago. It's only gotten worse since then. At this point, it's clear that this stuff is weighing on him pretty heavily. I don't think anyone deserves to be treated like this, regardless of how they handle their online presence. I mean, it's basically cyber-bullying at this point. I wish people would realize that there's another person on the other end of the line who is actually suffering because of their comments. (Hoping to get this in before the Fish-bashing inevitably starts here as well.)

nikster 13y ago
I guess he's learning to have thicker skin. It requires only one insight - that what people say about you, what they think about you, is not reality. Understand this deeply, and nobody will be able to insult you anymore. You'll realize that insults are all in your mind. You control your mind so - poof! There they go, the insults! They're as important as thinking about a cat sleeping on top of a dog. Just another thought of no particular consequence.
- vanderZwan 13y ago
  I'm sorry, but that is incredibly shortsighted, and I wonder if you have ever been on the receiving end of bullying if you believe that. Because I have, and I had to deal with bullshit like this coming from people who could have intervened. Yes, people who are bullied often respond overly sensitive. That's not because they need to grow a thicker skin, it's because the damn skin has been flogged away by incessant bullying - and that has to stop first before they can recover properly. And yes, technically speaking we are just a collection of atoms in a specific configurations, but in the end that doesn't say anything meaningful about what makes us human or what makes us "tick". At the end of the day, we are a social species, hardwired to function by looking for approval from others, and especially from those we hold in high regard. That's what makes us tick, unless you're a sociopath. If you are a passionate creator of games, I'm pretty sure that you care about what the games industry says about you. And saying "well, if the games industry treats you like shit that just means they're asshats" isn't helping. That's saying "oh, that thing you care about so much? That's bullshit!" Oh great, thanks, not only does the community surrounding the very thing I care about treat me in a way that makes me feel miserable, now I'm being told I'm a double idiot for caring about their opinion in the first place! XKCD summed it up perfectly: http://xkcd.com/1216/ http://xkcd.com/1216/

hackapreneur 13y ago

True definition of rage quit. Game over.

pearjuice 13y ago

He runs off with the money just like that? Was it kickstarted?

Ygg2 13y ago
Umm, no. He just announced it afaik. He probably means "I'll take all the FEZ money and I'm going home". It's the proverbial kid taking his ball home.

Ygg2 13y ago

On this topic my thoughts are divided. Phil Fish didn't deserve to be covered in vitriol and repeatedly flamed and insulted as he did. He is a dedicated, hard working and creative individual that has enriched the gaming with Fez, which is a oh so wonderful and delightful puzzle game. I love that game to bits. That said, I definitely see how he could have triggered all the ire that is directed at him. He is as a previously commenter rightly noted, well known for engaging in similarly rude and insulting mouthing-off matches. So it's a bad combination of being able to dish out insults but not take any. While I do have some sympathy for him, I tend to disassociate him from his work, simply because of his 'persona'.

incision 13y ago
I tend agree with you. I see the behavior of Fish and his detractor as symptoms of the same cocky entitlement and nastiness that is so terribly common gaming culture.

edcastro 13y ago

I don't really feel sorry for Phil. People are being mean to him? Yes, definitely. But the other way around is well known to be done. Phil is usually, put mildly, blunt when talking about other people. Guess it's just karma.