4 ms·

We should exclude such people from educational institutes by nature of belief. They're not teaching science if they already have an agenda, bias or belief and a

We should exclude such people from educational institutes by nature of belief. They're not teaching science if they already have an agenda, bias or belief and allow it to interfere with objectivity and professionalism. In fact any religious school or education institute should be of independent of religion how the church and state supposedly are. This shit is unfortunately rife. I had to explain this to my daughter's teacher who refused to teach evolution under science, even though it is part of the curriculum in the UK at primary level. The most annoying thing is that I was called into the (non-religious) school because my 9 year old daughter said she didn't believe in god and the teacher found it offensive and didn't want to teach her!

alinajaf 13y ago
As a new parent this is somewhat terrifying. But good on your daughter for setting the teacher straight! At the same time, I was lucky enough in my education in the UK to get a steady stream of secular humanists as science teachers. They never directly attacked my religion, but by the end of it I had the skills to tear it to shreds on my own.
jurassic 13y ago
Frightening to hear. I don't have children yet, but stories like this make me think about wanting to homeschool.
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  This is exactly what we're doing after the incident and others. Two extracted, one will not be going to school. We have a strong home-teaching network in the area we are moving to (Cambridgeshire) so there will be plenty of opportunities for them to grow and learn. The other incidents included utterly sub-standard teaching [1], particularly with mathematics, bullying, actually receiving personal insults from heavily unionised teachers (for daring to speak up against the public sector - how dare I) and handing out "story books" from corporations (Lloyds in particular) to instill brands into the children from day one. [1] I obtained a marked SAT maths paper from the school for my daughter which had 40% of questions either mis-marked, unsolvable or missed (bear in mind I have an engineering degree, so I can add ;-) ).
Tichy 13y ago
Wouldn't that be grounds enough to fire the teacher?
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  You can try to, but be prepared to fight through layers of bureaucracy, unions, head teachers, boards of governors, the LEA and your local MPs etc. It's not worth it. Public sector staff in the UK are pretty untouchable unless they get done for abusing children physically. Mentally abusing them and giving them a substandard education appears to be OK at all levels... The best way to return the favor is to withdraw them from the school as people actually have to answer to that and you don't have to be involved in them having to explain themselves up their hierarchy. For reference I was a school governor for a period of time but the utter incompetence and pure self-interest other people showed forced me to resign on principle. The impression it gave me is that the entire education hierarchy, bar possibly some universities, is a place where the utterly incompetent, half-wit politicians in society can embed themselves and clamber over each other to reach a good public sector state pension. I understand there are exceptions to this and excellent teachers but they are lost in a sea of dross. Also, this has got much worse since I was at school in the 1980's so don't be skewed by your previous experiences in education.
pdeuchler 13y ago
It seems HN is just as prone to pulling out the "Save The Kids" rhetoric when it suits them. I wonder why you aren't lauding the NSA surveillance program, as it gives you exactly the kind of ammunition to perform such thought police style discrimination. You will never agree with everyone. The solution is never to "exclude" or "ban" a school of thought, but counteract it with logic and reason. I see no harm in teaching both sides of human origin, it gives children the chance to decide for themselves, and also offers parents a wonderful opportunity to explain their own beliefs while rebutting any they don't agree with. If a teacher is not teaching evolution perhaps they aren't performing their job correctly, as opposed to being an insidious agent that must be removed due to their crimethink. I hope you can see the difference between job performance and belief systems.
- Tichy 13y ago
  Except this isn't about beliefs and opinions, but about science. You can question evolution with the scientific method if you want to. And "save the kids" seems a bit more applicable when applied to teachers who are paid to educate said kids.
  - pdeuchler 13y ago
    "Save The Kids" is an appeal to emotion and is used to avoid addressing the logic and reason of the situation. If the children are in danger then you should have no problem listing the explicit points where such actions can cause irreparable harm. Otherwise you are simply trying to shortchange the debate and prevent discourse. The way I see it, a parent has been forced to parent. While I don't have children, I remember my parents being forced to intervene with teachers on a whole host of issues. Does this mean we should ban all teachers who disagree with any parent on any issue?
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      Why does harm have to be irreparable to be avoided?
    - Tichy 13y ago

alinajaf 13y ago

As a new parent this is somewhat terrifying. But good on your daughter for setting the teacher straight! At the same time, I was lucky enough in my education in the UK to get a steady stream of secular humanists as science teachers. They never directly attacked my religion, but by the end of it I had the skills to tear it to shreds on my own.

jurassic 13y ago

Frightening to hear. I don't have children yet, but stories like this make me think about wanting to homeschool.

harrytuttle 13y ago
This is exactly what we're doing after the incident and others. Two extracted, one will not be going to school. We have a strong home-teaching network in the area we are moving to (Cambridgeshire) so there will be plenty of opportunities for them to grow and learn. The other incidents included utterly sub-standard teaching [1], particularly with mathematics, bullying, actually receiving personal insults from heavily unionised teachers (for daring to speak up against the public sector - how dare I) and handing out "story books" from corporations (Lloyds in particular) to instill brands into the children from day one. [1] I obtained a marked SAT maths paper from the school for my daughter which had 40% of questions either mis-marked, unsolvable or missed (bear in mind I have an engineering degree, so I can add ;-) ).

Tichy 13y ago

Wouldn't that be grounds enough to fire the teacher?

harrytuttle 13y ago
You can try to, but be prepared to fight through layers of bureaucracy, unions, head teachers, boards of governors, the LEA and your local MPs etc. It's not worth it. Public sector staff in the UK are pretty untouchable unless they get done for abusing children physically. Mentally abusing them and giving them a substandard education appears to be OK at all levels... The best way to return the favor is to withdraw them from the school as people actually have to answer to that and you don't have to be involved in them having to explain themselves up their hierarchy. For reference I was a school governor for a period of time but the utter incompetence and pure self-interest other people showed forced me to resign on principle. The impression it gave me is that the entire education hierarchy, bar possibly some universities, is a place where the utterly incompetent, half-wit politicians in society can embed themselves and clamber over each other to reach a good public sector state pension. I understand there are exceptions to this and excellent teachers but they are lost in a sea of dross. Also, this has got much worse since I was at school in the 1980's so don't be skewed by your previous experiences in education.

pdeuchler 13y ago

It seems HN is just as prone to pulling out the "Save The Kids" rhetoric when it suits them. I wonder why you aren't lauding the NSA surveillance program, as it gives you exactly the kind of ammunition to perform such thought police style discrimination. You will never agree with everyone. The solution is never to "exclude" or "ban" a school of thought, but counteract it with logic and reason. I see no harm in teaching both sides of human origin, it gives children the chance to decide for themselves, and also offers parents a wonderful opportunity to explain their own beliefs while rebutting any they don't agree with. If a teacher is not teaching evolution perhaps they aren't performing their job correctly, as opposed to being an insidious agent that must be removed due to their crimethink. I hope you can see the difference between job performance and belief systems.

Tichy 13y ago
Except this isn't about beliefs and opinions, but about science. You can question evolution with the scientific method if you want to. And "save the kids" seems a bit more applicable when applied to teachers who are paid to educate said kids.
- pdeuchler 13y ago
  "Save The Kids" is an appeal to emotion and is used to avoid addressing the logic and reason of the situation. If the children are in danger then you should have no problem listing the explicit points where such actions can cause irreparable harm. Otherwise you are simply trying to shortchange the debate and prevent discourse. The way I see it, a parent has been forced to parent. While I don't have children, I remember my parents being forced to intervene with teachers on a whole host of issues. Does this mean we should ban all teachers who disagree with any parent on any issue?
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    Why does harm have to be irreparable to be avoided?
  - Tichy 13y ago