4 ms·

What a ridiculous statement for a government official to make in a country that has sentences determined by a democratic court system. How can Holder know what

What a ridiculous statement for a government official to make in a country that has sentences determined by a democratic court system. How can Holder know what the punishment will be on top of what the jury will decide?

mpyne 13y ago
Because there is a cap on what punishments are allowed, whether the jury likes it or not? All Holder has to do is prevent his US Attorney from issuing charges where death penalty is an option and that part is dealt with. Torture is also not permissible anyways so it's kind of redundant having to mention it. If the police do torture Snowden at least one of the many judged in the district+appellant review chain will throw the case out completely and he's a free man (for example, see Ellsberg who had his charges thrown out for much much less than torture).
- pyrocat 13y ago
  Or more realistically, someone from the justice department will write a memo saying that whatever torture he underwent wasn't torture. Or they'd secretly torture him overseas, like they've done many times in the past, and Holder's statement would still be technically true.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    > Or more realistically, someone from the justice department will write a memo saying that whatever torture he underwent wasn't torture I don't think 'ex post facto' works like that, but then IANAL. Certainly it's hard to hold his trial here in America while he's being tortured overseas, and it's fairly tinfoily anyways; why didn't they send Thomas Drake overseas to torture him? Or Ellsberg today? Surely they could think up something to charge him with, if all they needed was some DoJ lackey to write a memo...
    - pyrocat 13y ago
      Too much publicity. And re: torture and memos defining torture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo#Regarding_torture_of_detainees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo#Regarding_torture_of_d...
- GigabyteCoin 13y ago
  I was referring to the death penalty when I made the parent comment. Not the possibility of him being tortured. Is treason not a crime punishable by death in the United States? According to this link, it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States
  - mpyne 13y ago
    Unfortunately for that argument, treason carries a very specific, Constitutionally-set, definition. It is the only crime with such a definition, and Snowden is not likely to ever be convicted of it for that reason.

mpyne 13y ago

Because there is a cap on what punishments are allowed, whether the jury likes it or not? All Holder has to do is prevent his US Attorney from issuing charges where death penalty is an option and that part is dealt with. Torture is also not permissible anyways so it's kind of redundant having to mention it. If the police do torture Snowden at least one of the many judged in the district+appellant review chain will throw the case out completely and he's a free man (for example, see Ellsberg who had his charges thrown out for much much less than torture).

pyrocat 13y ago
Or more realistically, someone from the justice department will write a memo saying that whatever torture he underwent wasn't torture. Or they'd secretly torture him overseas, like they've done many times in the past, and Holder's statement would still be technically true.
- mpyne 13y ago
  > Or more realistically, someone from the justice department will write a memo saying that whatever torture he underwent wasn't torture I don't think 'ex post facto' works like that, but then IANAL. Certainly it's hard to hold his trial here in America while he's being tortured overseas, and it's fairly tinfoily anyways; why didn't they send Thomas Drake overseas to torture him? Or Ellsberg today? Surely they could think up something to charge him with, if all they needed was some DoJ lackey to write a memo...
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    Too much publicity. And re: torture and memos defining torture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo#Regarding_torture_of_detainees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo#Regarding_torture_of_d...
GigabyteCoin 13y ago
I was referring to the death penalty when I made the parent comment. Not the possibility of him being tortured. Is treason not a crime punishable by death in the United States? According to this link, it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States
- mpyne 13y ago
  Unfortunately for that argument, treason carries a very specific, Constitutionally-set, definition. It is the only crime with such a definition, and Snowden is not likely to ever be convicted of it for that reason.