7 ms·

How to slaughter a patent troll in 5 steps

111 points by wijnglas 13y ago

jackschultz 13y ago
Besides generic software patents, the oddest one I've seen is being able to patent a color. Since Nike has the patent on the color "Maize", Adidas had to come up with a new color for Michigan athletics. Also, I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but there may be an opportunity for a business of being the go to firm for fighting these trolls. Like the article said, being familiar with the companies and the process makes it easier, and if you could be the go-to firm for fighting them, especially since you would become more desirable the more often you fight the same groups.
- dangrossman 13y ago
  There is no such patent; no patent assigned to Nike contains the word "maize", and Google finds nothing to corroborate this story but an opinion piece in a Michigan newspaper about a rumored copyright being the reason the team changed its colors. Neither copyright nor patent can give ownership rights in a color.
  - james_madison 13y ago
    > Neither copyright nor patent can give ownership rights in a color. A color can be a trademark: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_trademark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_trademark
    - sporkologist 13y ago
      (trademarks and copyrights) ≠ (patents)
  - HarryHirsch 13y ago
    Neither copyright nor patent can give ownership rights in a color. Under EU law one can register a color as a trademark, provided it's a distinguishing mark. I think that's fair. Deutsche Telekom have been using magenta on their outlets ever since they started, people think "Magenta" whenever the name is mentioned, and I guess even you would stop a second if another phone company painted their outlets that color.
- rhizome 13y ago
  I hadn't heard that one, but Yves Klein patented a color in France 50 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Klein_Blue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Klein_Blue
  - smsm42 13y ago
    I think the patent was about the chemical, not the color as a hue. This is essentially the same idea as drug patents.
- nl 13y ago
  Nike doesn't have a patent on the color Maize. Many companies have trademarked colors. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_trademark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_trademark and http://au.businessinsider.com/colors-that-are-trademarked-2012-9?op=1#brown-1 http://au.businessinsider.com/colors-that-are-trademarked-20...
zdean 13y ago
"I’m personally willing to commit over $1 million to fight this injustice..." The other 5 steps would seem pretty irrelevant as a defendant in the absence of the above resource.
- noonespecial 13y ago
  That's what I came to post. Step 6 seems to be "have a million dollars".
  - WildUtah 13y ago
    It's not exactly "have a million dollars." The read sixth step is "have a million dollars you don't mind spending without getting anything back for it." If you win a patent suit, you don't win anything. You're just out a million or two dollars for nothing. And it means the patent troll has to look through his portfolio to find another one to use for the next time he decides to blackmail you.
    - girvo 13y ago
      The game theoretical approach to patent trolls makes an unfortunate amount of sense, but I wish that wasn't the case.
- jakejake 13y ago
  I agree its much easier to be brave when you can easily afford to lose. Nevertheless, I think this is absolutely awesome. It's like Dirty Harry going off the rails and breaking all the rules for justice. I love it! I'm glad it's not my money, but I love it. Maybe if more companies with some extra cash would do this scumbag trolls like Eileen Shapiro would think twice.
- smsm42 13y ago
  That's true. But then again, there are many people/companies that have millions and still choose to settle because it's cheaper this way. If they refused to be terrorized and instead chose to inflict pain on the trolls, trolling would cease to be that lucrative of a business, I suspect. It's useless to sue somebody who has no money at all, and if it would be dangerous to sue somebody who does have money, the target of the trolls would grow small and so will the profits. Maybe they'd move to relatively more respectable ventures, like selling fake rolex watches or copywriting for recently deposed Nigerian princes.
x0054 13y ago
I think a tool is necessary to allow people who are threatened with litigation, but are not yet part of a lawsuit, to find each other. So, if some lawyer contacts me and tells me that I am infringing on patent X, and I should settle before trial, it would be awesome if there was a site where I could go and register (anonymously) that I am being threatened with litigation for infringement of patent X. The site would link me up with other people who are either already being sued, or threatened with a lawsuit for Patent X. It's an idea that has been floating around in my head for a while now, but due to time limitations, I have yet to implement it. What do you guys think.
- thinkcomp 13y ago
  PlainSite helps you at least keep track of patent trolls and their litigation: http://www.plainsite.org/tags/index.html?id=635 http://www.plainsite.org/tags/index.html?id=635
- netforay 13y ago
  That is exactly what I thought after reading this article. Good idea. If some one can make the spec, I can get it done.
  - osipov 13y ago
    Would you be interested in taking a look at a site like that? It would be great to get your feedback!
    - netforay 13y ago
      Yes, I am very much interested.
- robotcookies 13y ago
  Good idea. It might also be good to track the names of the lawyers involved (and not just the names of the shell companies they're hiding behind). Most know the laws may eventually change to make patent trolling harder and that their industry may not last forever. Many probably plan on working in tech if this happens. If these lawyers knew their reputation could be sullied by working for patent trolls and that tech companies may hot hire them for this, it would provide a deterrent to working for such companies in the first place.
graycat 13y ago
What about the Vito Corleone law firm -- "We make each patent troll an offer they can't refuse"?
tzs 13y ago
> If you settle, more trolls will come knocking on your door. The settlement agreement should include an NDA.
- rpgmaker 13y ago
  Quick offtopic: from where is the image in the article?
  - lh7777 13y ago
    Looks like it's from the movie Troll Hunter. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1740707/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1740707/
    - rpgmaker 13y ago
      Thanks!
- smsm42 13y ago
  The NDA covers the exact settlement details, but not the fact that they settled, AFAIK.
greenyoda 13y ago
I'm very surprised that nowhere in the article does the author advise someone in this position to get a lawyer. If I were being sued by a patent troll (or anyone else), the very first thing I'd do is hire competent legal counsel and let them communicate on my behalf. Not being a lawyer myself, I don't know how to figure out whether the troll's suit is frivolous or not, and I don't know whether some offhand remark I might make to their lawyer could get me in trouble. It's also possible that once the troll sees that I have a lawyer, they might just drop their suit and go after easier prey. "He then told us we had until the end of the day to settle the case or face criminal charges for harassment. We immediately notified the FBI of his extortion attempt." That seems to indicate that the troll's lawyer was fairly incompetent; I don't think a competent lawyer would have made such a baseless and self-incriminating threat. A competent lawyer might have been much harder to beat if he didn't have a lawyer of his own.
- jakejake 13y ago
  Getting an attorney is probably excellent advice, but I don't think it hurts anything to do research on your own as well so that you can get some idea of what the patent is about and whether you might actually be legally infringing. I probably would have at least consulted with an attorney before contacting the troll and the patent author though, just to be sure I wasn't somehow shooting myself in the foot or limiting my future options.
- radley 13y ago
  "When a patent troll serves you with a lawsuit, you need to review the lawsuit as quickly as possible to determine if your company is infringing the patent referenced in the lawsuit." Doing this with an attorney goes without saying. This isn't a jr league blog.
huhtenberg 13y ago
> How to slaughter a patent troll in 5 steps Am I missing something or they haven't actually slaughtered their troll yet?
- Qantourisc 13y ago
  Correct you are. On a more funny note: I was also expecting picture of bleeding dead trolls.
everettForth 13y ago
I didn't find any useful content here, but at least there were five steps! vi hart on why we like 5 reasons videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cyw3ncjnH8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cyw3ncjnH8
spiritplumber 13y ago
Ease of slaughtering is well and dandy, but are patent trolls tasty? Can the meat be cured or smoked? What's the caloric intake and fat percentage? These are important questions to be answered before patent trolls can be added to our food baskets.
officialjunk 13y ago
"the second" you read this...
TallboyOne 13y ago
Can someone explain to me HOW these exist? Every time I read a story about patent trolsl it enrages me. How do these even exist?? I get the gist of what they do, but how come they don't have to pay any money, or even back up their claims? How hard would it be to just pass a law that stops these $&% pricks? Will this happen any time soon do you think?

111 points by wijnglas 13y ago

Besides generic software patents, the oddest one I've seen is being able to patent a color. Since Nike has the patent on the color "Maize", Adidas had to come up with a new color for Michigan athletics. Also, I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but there may be an opportunity for a business of being the go to firm for fighting these trolls. Like the article said, being familiar with the companies and the process makes it easier, and if you could be the go-to firm for fighting them, especially since you would become more desirable the more often you fight the same groups.

dangrossman 13y ago
There is no such patent; no patent assigned to Nike contains the word "maize", and Google finds nothing to corroborate this story but an opinion piece in a Michigan newspaper about a rumored copyright being the reason the team changed its colors. Neither copyright nor patent can give ownership rights in a color.
- james_madison 13y ago
  > Neither copyright nor patent can give ownership rights in a color. A color can be a trademark: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_trademark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_trademark
  - sporkologist 13y ago
    (trademarks and copyrights) ≠ (patents)
- HarryHirsch 13y ago
  Neither copyright nor patent can give ownership rights in a color. Under EU law one can register a color as a trademark, provided it's a distinguishing mark. I think that's fair. Deutsche Telekom have been using magenta on their outlets ever since they started, people think "Magenta" whenever the name is mentioned, and I guess even you would stop a second if another phone company painted their outlets that color.
rhizome 13y ago
I hadn't heard that one, but Yves Klein patented a color in France 50 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Klein_Blue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Klein_Blue
- smsm42 13y ago
  I think the patent was about the chemical, not the color as a hue. This is essentially the same idea as drug patents.
nl 13y ago
Nike doesn't have a patent on the color Maize. Many companies have trademarked colors. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_trademark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_trademark and http://au.businessinsider.com/colors-that-are-trademarked-2012-9?op=1#brown-1 http://au.businessinsider.com/colors-that-are-trademarked-20...

zdean 13y ago

"I’m personally willing to commit over $1 million to fight this injustice..." The other 5 steps would seem pretty irrelevant as a defendant in the absence of the above resource.

noonespecial 13y ago
That's what I came to post. Step 6 seems to be "have a million dollars".
- WildUtah 13y ago
  It's not exactly "have a million dollars." The read sixth step is "have a million dollars you don't mind spending without getting anything back for it." If you win a patent suit, you don't win anything. You're just out a million or two dollars for nothing. And it means the patent troll has to look through his portfolio to find another one to use for the next time he decides to blackmail you.
  - girvo 13y ago
    The game theoretical approach to patent trolls makes an unfortunate amount of sense, but I wish that wasn't the case.
jakejake 13y ago
I agree its much easier to be brave when you can easily afford to lose. Nevertheless, I think this is absolutely awesome. It's like Dirty Harry going off the rails and breaking all the rules for justice. I love it! I'm glad it's not my money, but I love it. Maybe if more companies with some extra cash would do this scumbag trolls like Eileen Shapiro would think twice.
smsm42 13y ago
That's true. But then again, there are many people/companies that have millions and still choose to settle because it's cheaper this way. If they refused to be terrorized and instead chose to inflict pain on the trolls, trolling would cease to be that lucrative of a business, I suspect. It's useless to sue somebody who has no money at all, and if it would be dangerous to sue somebody who does have money, the target of the trolls would grow small and so will the profits. Maybe they'd move to relatively more respectable ventures, like selling fake rolex watches or copywriting for recently deposed Nigerian princes.

x0054 13y ago

I think a tool is necessary to allow people who are threatened with litigation, but are not yet part of a lawsuit, to find each other. So, if some lawyer contacts me and tells me that I am infringing on patent X, and I should settle before trial, it would be awesome if there was a site where I could go and register (anonymously) that I am being threatened with litigation for infringement of patent X. The site would link me up with other people who are either already being sued, or threatened with a lawsuit for Patent X. It's an idea that has been floating around in my head for a while now, but due to time limitations, I have yet to implement it. What do you guys think.

thinkcomp 13y ago
PlainSite helps you at least keep track of patent trolls and their litigation: http://www.plainsite.org/tags/index.html?id=635 http://www.plainsite.org/tags/index.html?id=635
netforay 13y ago
That is exactly what I thought after reading this article. Good idea. If some one can make the spec, I can get it done.
- osipov 13y ago
  Would you be interested in taking a look at a site like that? It would be great to get your feedback!
  - netforay 13y ago
    Yes, I am very much interested.
robotcookies 13y ago
Good idea. It might also be good to track the names of the lawyers involved (and not just the names of the shell companies they're hiding behind). Most know the laws may eventually change to make patent trolling harder and that their industry may not last forever. Many probably plan on working in tech if this happens. If these lawyers knew their reputation could be sullied by working for patent trolls and that tech companies may hot hire them for this, it would provide a deterrent to working for such companies in the first place.

graycat 13y ago

What about the Vito Corleone law firm -- "We make each patent troll an offer they can't refuse"?

tzs 13y ago

> If you settle, more trolls will come knocking on your door. The settlement agreement should include an NDA.

rpgmaker 13y ago
Quick offtopic: from where is the image in the article?
- lh7777 13y ago
  Looks like it's from the movie Troll Hunter. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1740707/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1740707/
  - rpgmaker 13y ago
    Thanks!
smsm42 13y ago
The NDA covers the exact settlement details, but not the fact that they settled, AFAIK.

greenyoda 13y ago

I'm very surprised that nowhere in the article does the author advise someone in this position to get a lawyer. If I were being sued by a patent troll (or anyone else), the very first thing I'd do is hire competent legal counsel and let them communicate on my behalf. Not being a lawyer myself, I don't know how to figure out whether the troll's suit is frivolous or not, and I don't know whether some offhand remark I might make to their lawyer could get me in trouble. It's also possible that once the troll sees that I have a lawyer, they might just drop their suit and go after easier prey. "He then told us we had until the end of the day to settle the case or face criminal charges for harassment. We immediately notified the FBI of his extortion attempt." That seems to indicate that the troll's lawyer was fairly incompetent; I don't think a competent lawyer would have made such a baseless and self-incriminating threat. A competent lawyer might have been much harder to beat if he didn't have a lawyer of his own.

jakejake 13y ago
Getting an attorney is probably excellent advice, but I don't think it hurts anything to do research on your own as well so that you can get some idea of what the patent is about and whether you might actually be legally infringing. I probably would have at least consulted with an attorney before contacting the troll and the patent author though, just to be sure I wasn't somehow shooting myself in the foot or limiting my future options.
radley 13y ago
"When a patent troll serves you with a lawsuit, you need to review the lawsuit as quickly as possible to determine if your company is infringing the patent referenced in the lawsuit." Doing this with an attorney goes without saying. This isn't a jr league blog.

huhtenberg 13y ago

> How to slaughter a patent troll in 5 steps Am I missing something or they haven't actually slaughtered their troll yet?

Qantourisc 13y ago
Correct you are. On a more funny note: I was also expecting picture of bleeding dead trolls.

everettForth 13y ago

I didn't find any useful content here, but at least there were five steps! vi hart on why we like 5 reasons videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cyw3ncjnH8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cyw3ncjnH8

spiritplumber 13y ago

Ease of slaughtering is well and dandy, but are patent trolls tasty? Can the meat be cured or smoked? What's the caloric intake and fat percentage? These are important questions to be answered before patent trolls can be added to our food baskets.

officialjunk 13y ago

"the second" you read this...

TallboyOne 13y ago

Can someone explain to me HOW these exist? Every time I read a story about patent trolsl it enrages me. How do these even exist?? I get the gist of what they do, but how come they don't have to pay any money, or even back up their claims? How hard would it be to just pass a law that stops these $&% pricks? Will this happen any time soon do you think?