4 ms·

Isn't learning to read and learning to program basically the same thing? You're putting direction to syntax to complete a statement in either case. I don't see

by lowglow 13y ago

Isn't learning to read and learning to program basically the same thing? You're putting direction to syntax to complete a statement in either case. I don't see what the big leap is. Am I missing something?

anigbrowl 13y ago
No, far from it. I continue to be bemused by many programmers' fetishization of text. This is the sort of thing I like to work with: http://www.recordjob.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Reaktor5_Screenshot_interface.jpg http://www.recordjob.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Reaktor5_... This one is aimed somewhat more at roboticists, and has a Ruby interface: http://www.dsprobotics.com/flowstone.html http://www.dsprobotics.com/flowstone.html This is a flatter (non-nesting) system, but the one which I use most because it's so fast to prototype in (and these days I care more about composition than systemization): http://bagger288.com/goldenmaster/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/granpatch.jpg http://bagger288.com/goldenmaster/wp-content/uploads/2009/12...
- socillion 13y ago
  This is the sort of thing I've worked with: http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201104/labview.jpg http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201104/labview.jpg Get 5+ of those controlling a robot and you can have a terrific time debugging. I think it's scarred me for life; I'd rather use Java than write a program in a graphical language again.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    That looks like a good time to me! I like to see the structure of what I'm working with, and that's something that gets lost with text. But I agree that it makes debugging more demanding, since you can't just set breakpoints and so in the normal way; synchronization problems can be a headache. I think it's got a lot more in common with breadboarding/circuit design/ I do recommend checking out Flowstone, or its earlier incarnation Synthmaker, which allows programming in C and assembler as well as blackboxing modules. This seems like the best of both worlds in many respects.
    - socillion 13y ago
      That's interesting, do you have a background in hardware? I find it much easier to build a mental model from text, but I guess its because I'm not very familiar with graphical tools. I try to stay away from closed source development tools as a general rule, are there any open source graphical tools you would recommend?
      - anigbrowl 13y ago
        I'm sorry that I can't suggest anything open source except for DSP hacking, and that would Miller Puckette Pure Data system - but like a lot of open-source tools, especially in this space, it's about as friendly as a leopard. Very powerful, but also hideously ugly. Most pro users use a commercial iteration of the concept called Max/MSP which also has a steep learning curve but is quite interoperable with other platforms such as Processing. I'm largely focused on audio processing because I'm into synths, but also on sequencers which I find endlessfascinating in much the same way as wind-up toys :) The problem is increasing complexity on larger projects, of course; I tend to use the Nord Modular platform for preference because otherwise I could spend all my time building and never get around to making music. One commercial application that you might find interesting is the IDA debugger. I found after I'd been doing this for a while that I developed a strange affection for assembler and low-level debugging.
        ics 13y ago
        I don't think Pure Data is as scary as people make it out to be. It's certainly quite plain looking– similar to writing code with no syntax highlighting– but once you settle in it's enormous fun and very straightforward. The help browser in Pd-extended has enough examples and tutorials to keep you interested. Considering how much similar applications cost, PD should get a hardy recommendation!

by lowglow 13y ago

anigbrowl 13y ago

No, far from it. I continue to be bemused by many programmers' fetishization of text. This is the sort of thing I like to work with: http://www.recordjob.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Reaktor5_Screenshot_interface.jpg http://www.recordjob.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Reaktor5_... This one is aimed somewhat more at roboticists, and has a Ruby interface: http://www.dsprobotics.com/flowstone.html http://www.dsprobotics.com/flowstone.html This is a flatter (non-nesting) system, but the one which I use most because it's so fast to prototype in (and these days I care more about composition than systemization): http://bagger288.com/goldenmaster/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/granpatch.jpg http://bagger288.com/goldenmaster/wp-content/uploads/2009/12...

socillion 13y ago
This is the sort of thing I've worked with: http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201104/labview.jpg http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201104/labview.jpg Get 5+ of those controlling a robot and you can have a terrific time debugging. I think it's scarred me for life; I'd rather use Java than write a program in a graphical language again.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  That looks like a good time to me! I like to see the structure of what I'm working with, and that's something that gets lost with text. But I agree that it makes debugging more demanding, since you can't just set breakpoints and so in the normal way; synchronization problems can be a headache. I think it's got a lot more in common with breadboarding/circuit design/ I do recommend checking out Flowstone, or its earlier incarnation Synthmaker, which allows programming in C and assembler as well as blackboxing modules. This seems like the best of both worlds in many respects.
  - socillion 13y ago
    That's interesting, do you have a background in hardware? I find it much easier to build a mental model from text, but I guess its because I'm not very familiar with graphical tools. I try to stay away from closed source development tools as a general rule, are there any open source graphical tools you would recommend?
    - anigbrowl 13y ago
      I'm sorry that I can't suggest anything open source except for DSP hacking, and that would Miller Puckette Pure Data system - but like a lot of open-source tools, especially in this space, it's about as friendly as a leopard. Very powerful, but also hideously ugly. Most pro users use a commercial iteration of the concept called Max/MSP which also has a steep learning curve but is quite interoperable with other platforms such as Processing. I'm largely focused on audio processing because I'm into synths, but also on sequencers which I find endlessfascinating in much the same way as wind-up toys :) The problem is increasing complexity on larger projects, of course; I tend to use the Nord Modular platform for preference because otherwise I could spend all my time building and never get around to making music. One commercial application that you might find interesting is the IDA debugger. I found after I'd been doing this for a while that I developed a strange affection for assembler and low-level debugging.
      - ics 13y ago
        I don't think Pure Data is as scary as people make it out to be. It's certainly quite plain looking– similar to writing code with no syntax highlighting– but once you settle in it's enormous fun and very straightforward. The help browser in Pd-extended has enough examples and tutorials to keep you interested. Considering how much similar applications cost, PD should get a hardy recommendation!