6 ms·

>I for one support "made in USA" and buy that if I can I'd never understood this kind of nationalism. I don't care if the items I purchase happen to have been

by nawitus 13y ago

>I for one support "made in USA" and buy that if I can I'd never understood this kind of nationalism. I don't care if the items I purchase happen to have been made in the country I happen to live. I want to buy the product that best suits my needs regardless of where it was manufactured. Sure, if an American product happens to have a higher quality and I'm looking for that, then I can choose to buy it. In that case you can abstract away the manufacturing country, so "made in country X" shouldn't be a factor in any case. If anything, Western people should buy products from poor countries. It's the best aid they can get.

tnuc 13y ago
Unfortunately your economic rationale makes little sense to most people, even quite a few economists.
- SamReidHughes 13y ago
  The economists who are anti-trade?
mcantelon 13y ago
>I'd never understood this kind of nationalism. Some people want to support their own community and some are concerned about labor/environment standards, human rights, civil liberties, etc.
- nawitus 13y ago
  >Some people want to support their own community I don't think that's necessary nor ethically justified (though I understand why some people support it). It's like a some kind abstract form of 'cartel', i.e. "I support you, you support me". However, it's taking money away from poor countries (in this context). I don't think some 'rich' Westerner who happens to live near me is more deserving of my money than a poor person in a third-world country. >some are concerned about labor/environment standards, human rights, civil liberties, etc. Ironically, the only way those poor countries will have labour/environment standards, human rights and civil liberties is throug economic growth. If you're poor, you can't afford workplace safety.
  - JonFish85 13y ago
    It's a pretty natural want though. I'll go to a coffee shop owned by my brother before I go to a random other coffee shop. Especially if products are more or less interchangeable. What's wrong with wanting to give your business to someone you know well, and whose product/work has a direct influence on your life? Do what you want, obviously, but I don't think it's a weird moral problem whether you want to support those closer to you.
    - sneak 13y ago
      > What's wrong with wanting to give your business to someone you know well Nothing, but it's impossible to "know well" everyone in a nation, making this sort of blind nationalism simply delusional at best.
      - mpyne 13y ago
        And yet I could fly thousands of miles to Washington state or California and "know" people much better than if I flew thousands of miles to Latin America, Iceland, etc. There is more to 'closeness to people' than distance, there is also shared culture, civics, values, etc. etc.
        sneak 13y ago
        You'll find a lot more common culture between people in NYC and London than you'll find between Atlanta and Portland, or Little Rock and San Francisco. As someone who's moved both across the US and across the ocean, stopping to embed myself culturally for several years each time, I think you overestimate this bond.
  - vmarsy 13y ago
    > I don't think that's necessary nor ethically justified Let's say there was a fictional country that was the exact opposite of your country : Some kind of dictatorship, with censorship everywhere, people enslaved , etc. Of course you would not buy a laptop from them, you don't want to give more money/power to this awful country. Now, if you consider 1 country to be the best, with a score of 100, and that worst country to have a score of 0. Every other country would have a score between 0 and 100. Depending on people views about where this country fits , some will be more supporting than other : They would be OK to pay 20% more for the same laptop to a country with a score of 95 instead of 80. The analogy with the coffee shop of JonFish85 would be : you know your brother is kind with his employees and give them good salaries, whereas the other coffee shop's owner harass his employees and pay them badly. But in both coffee shops , the product is the same, with the same price. >Ironically, the only way those poor countries will have labour/environment standards, human rights and civil liberties is throug economic growth. If you're poor, you can't afford workplace safety. Not really, if some company has twice more money, they would just hire more low-cost employees. To have a better workplace safety, either the employees must act, or citizens of that country ( including the employees ) assuming the country is a good democracy. If none of them can, other country can help solve the problem by boycotting products or enforcing regulations.
- jonmrodriguez 13y ago
  For me, I support US manufacturers because I think a lot of American talent these days is wasted on zero-sum industries such as finance, and I would much rather we work on actually producing real value.
mayneack 13y ago
Some needs functions include more than just the product at hand. Somewhere in the utility calculation, it's conceivable that by purchasing a marginally worse object there is marginally less unemployment in my town and thus I can partake in all sorts of other things that happen when more money is inside my small system. Whether or not it's worth it in the end: no comment.
untog 13y ago
I'd never understood this kind of nationalism. I don't care if the items I purchase happen to have been made in the country I happen to live. If you want, you can construe entirely selfish motives out of it. It is better if everyone in your community has a job- it brings down crime, for one. So you can personally benefit from buying locally- just in a "trickle down" sort of way rather than a direct one. To follow the similar selfish motive, why would you care to help third world countries anyway? Even if they collapse in themselves the effect on you will be minimal compared to your city collapsing around you (hi, Detroit)
brymaster 13y ago
It kind of sounds like you're saying you don't understand the economic and social benefits of buying local. If you've been watching the situation in the US and EU for the past 5-6 years you might better understand.
- zipppy 13y ago
  It sounds to me like they are saying that they don't care about the economic and social benefits. (S)he would rather those benefits go to people worse off.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  There are also economic and social benefits of buying further afield. It really depends on what you are buying.
eshvk 13y ago
> If anything, Western people should buy products from poor countries. It's the best aid they can get. So given equivalent products built in Detroit and Somalia, you would go for the one built in Somalia?
mc32 13y ago
It's just a more macro version of the buy local movement, I think. In some places it's feasible, in others not so much. But, to each their own, I think. If that's what makes them feel better. Just like if it makes people feel better that their veggies are grown locally vs shipped in, even if the local veggies require more 'human subsidies' (energy, water, fertilizer, etc.) that in places where they grow more readily, so be it.
jotm 13y ago
True, but look at it this way: I'd rather spend money that goes back into my own country, so that there will be more infrastructure, production and specialists here instead of overseas. This will benefit me and everyone else in the future: faster and cheaper shipping, better customer/tech support, more customization, cheaper upgrades, etc. Things which are harder to get when you pay an American company,which then pays a Nevis company, which then pays a Chinese company, which then pays Taiwanese and Chinese companies and so on...

by nawitus 13y ago

tnuc 13y ago

Unfortunately your economic rationale makes little sense to most people, even quite a few economists.

SamReidHughes 13y ago
The economists who are anti-trade?

mcantelon 13y ago

>I'd never understood this kind of nationalism. Some people want to support their own community and some are concerned about labor/environment standards, human rights, civil liberties, etc.

nawitus 13y ago
>Some people want to support their own community I don't think that's necessary nor ethically justified (though I understand why some people support it). It's like a some kind abstract form of 'cartel', i.e. "I support you, you support me". However, it's taking money away from poor countries (in this context). I don't think some 'rich' Westerner who happens to live near me is more deserving of my money than a poor person in a third-world country. >some are concerned about labor/environment standards, human rights, civil liberties, etc. Ironically, the only way those poor countries will have labour/environment standards, human rights and civil liberties is throug economic growth. If you're poor, you can't afford workplace safety.
- JonFish85 13y ago
  It's a pretty natural want though. I'll go to a coffee shop owned by my brother before I go to a random other coffee shop. Especially if products are more or less interchangeable. What's wrong with wanting to give your business to someone you know well, and whose product/work has a direct influence on your life? Do what you want, obviously, but I don't think it's a weird moral problem whether you want to support those closer to you.
  - sneak 13y ago
    > What's wrong with wanting to give your business to someone you know well Nothing, but it's impossible to "know well" everyone in a nation, making this sort of blind nationalism simply delusional at best.
    - mpyne 13y ago
      And yet I could fly thousands of miles to Washington state or California and "know" people much better than if I flew thousands of miles to Latin America, Iceland, etc. There is more to 'closeness to people' than distance, there is also shared culture, civics, values, etc. etc.
      - sneak 13y ago
        You'll find a lot more common culture between people in NYC and London than you'll find between Atlanta and Portland, or Little Rock and San Francisco. As someone who's moved both across the US and across the ocean, stopping to embed myself culturally for several years each time, I think you overestimate this bond.
- vmarsy 13y ago
  > I don't think that's necessary nor ethically justified Let's say there was a fictional country that was the exact opposite of your country : Some kind of dictatorship, with censorship everywhere, people enslaved , etc. Of course you would not buy a laptop from them, you don't want to give more money/power to this awful country. Now, if you consider 1 country to be the best, with a score of 100, and that worst country to have a score of 0. Every other country would have a score between 0 and 100. Depending on people views about where this country fits , some will be more supporting than other : They would be OK to pay 20% more for the same laptop to a country with a score of 95 instead of 80. The analogy with the coffee shop of JonFish85 would be : you know your brother is kind with his employees and give them good salaries, whereas the other coffee shop's owner harass his employees and pay them badly. But in both coffee shops , the product is the same, with the same price. >Ironically, the only way those poor countries will have labour/environment standards, human rights and civil liberties is throug economic growth. If you're poor, you can't afford workplace safety. Not really, if some company has twice more money, they would just hire more low-cost employees. To have a better workplace safety, either the employees must act, or citizens of that country ( including the employees ) assuming the country is a good democracy. If none of them can, other country can help solve the problem by boycotting products or enforcing regulations.
jonmrodriguez 13y ago
For me, I support US manufacturers because I think a lot of American talent these days is wasted on zero-sum industries such as finance, and I would much rather we work on actually producing real value.

mayneack 13y ago

Some needs functions include more than just the product at hand. Somewhere in the utility calculation, it's conceivable that by purchasing a marginally worse object there is marginally less unemployment in my town and thus I can partake in all sorts of other things that happen when more money is inside my small system. Whether or not it's worth it in the end: no comment.

untog 13y ago

I'd never understood this kind of nationalism. I don't care if the items I purchase happen to have been made in the country I happen to live. If you want, you can construe entirely selfish motives out of it. It is better if everyone in your community has a job- it brings down crime, for one. So you can personally benefit from buying locally- just in a "trickle down" sort of way rather than a direct one. To follow the similar selfish motive, why would you care to help third world countries anyway? Even if they collapse in themselves the effect on you will be minimal compared to your city collapsing around you (hi, Detroit)

brymaster 13y ago

It kind of sounds like you're saying you don't understand the economic and social benefits of buying local. If you've been watching the situation in the US and EU for the past 5-6 years you might better understand.

zipppy 13y ago
It sounds to me like they are saying that they don't care about the economic and social benefits. (S)he would rather those benefits go to people worse off.
moocowduckquack 13y ago
There are also economic and social benefits of buying further afield. It really depends on what you are buying.

eshvk 13y ago

> If anything, Western people should buy products from poor countries. It's the best aid they can get. So given equivalent products built in Detroit and Somalia, you would go for the one built in Somalia?

mc32 13y ago

It's just a more macro version of the buy local movement, I think. In some places it's feasible, in others not so much. But, to each their own, I think. If that's what makes them feel better. Just like if it makes people feel better that their veggies are grown locally vs shipped in, even if the local veggies require more 'human subsidies' (energy, water, fertilizer, etc.) that in places where they grow more readily, so be it.

jotm 13y ago

True, but look at it this way: I'd rather spend money that goes back into my own country, so that there will be more infrastructure, production and specialists here instead of overseas. This will benefit me and everyone else in the future: faster and cheaper shipping, better customer/tech support, more customization, cheaper upgrades, etc. Things which are harder to get when you pay an American company,which then pays a Nevis company, which then pays a Chinese company, which then pays Taiwanese and Chinese companies and so on...