4 ms·

Have you raised funding before? We had a similar stigma towards VCs and Angels with our company (bootstrapped up until a year ago); that they would just end up

by Ixiaus 13y ago

Have you raised funding before? We had a similar stigma towards VCs and Angels with our company (bootstrapped up until a year ago); that they would just end up trying to steer. Thus far (we've only raised a seed round so we haven't given out a board seat yet) after having raised about 400k in seed, my experience says the complete opposite, they don't even try to steer - I've learned far more than I ever would have dreamed of, having raised money from and talked to people that have done big and/or amazing things with their lives. If anything, you have to learn to ignore Angel's advice - some of it is good, most of it isn't pertinent to your business. BTW, you don't ever have to do anything an Angel says if you don't want to (unless you've given them a board seat). VC firms are different though because generally, in your Series A, if you raise 2M from VC firm X they will usually ask for a board seat - when someone is on your board then they DO have a say. You usually balance this out though by picking a neutral third party person that is trusted by both to hold the third board seat (or if you can, preferably someone that is more loyal to yourself).

lotsofcows 13y ago
"big and/or amazing things"? Raised confident, happy children while maintaining their own happiness you mean? I really can't think of anything else. Unless you're talking about fixing poverty, disease or violence on a large scale in which case I'm surprised you've got the time to procrastinate on here.
- kbenson 13y ago
  > Unless you're talking about fixing poverty, disease or violence on a large scale in which case I'm surprised you've got the time to procrastinate on here. How does that make any sense? Unless he's raised money from or talked to people that have worked on some of the biggest world problems you're surprised he has time to post on HN?
  - lotsofcows 13y ago
    GP,WM
- Ixiaus 13y ago
  So you've decided to take my completely reasonable argument and throw an ad hominem back at me? I almost wonder if you even read the comment, or thoroughly understood what I wrote because your snide tone is so far off from my intention. Lessons of the day: 1. stop trying to be an internet bully, it's unbecoming 2. not all investors are evil 3. the world isn't black & white and when you think something is bad, it most likely means you don't understand it or its context fully
  - lotsofcows 13y ago
    Ad hominem? Where? 1 What? 2 What? 3 What? To get back on topic, if you use hyperbolic and grandiose language to describe mundane experience expect to rub people the wrong way. Also, what argument?
    - Ixiaus 13y ago
      Where am I using hyperbolic and grandiose language? You also twisted my argument and tossed in a jab about procrastination - that is completely unrelated to the dialog (an ad hominem?). The argument in which I defended the idea that not all investors are out to get you and that maybe black and white thinking could be expanded to be less absolute. You are still not telling me what you disagree with without sarcastically attacking me. That's being an internet bully.
      - lotsofcows 13y ago
        What? By describing the mundane as "awesome" of course. Do you even read what you type? Twisted your argument? I'm ignoring your argument (I've just re-read the OP and I'm not actually sure what argument you're talking about) and picking you up on your odd choice of words. Re procrastinating, I have never seen a post on hacker news from anyone who is doing big and important things. To my mind, and please feel free to correct me, this strange state of affairs is probably because they're busy. Finally, to make it absolutely clear, as you seem to be having problems with this, I'm disagreeing with your abuse of the word "awesome". Do you always call people who disagree with you, "internet bully"? What's the difference (other than the banally obvious) between an "internet bully" and a "bully"? There's a lot of irony floating around for a guy who doesn't seem too clear on what "ad hominem" means.
jastreich 13y ago
Even if angles don't have a seat, they are still more trouble than their worth, IMHO. I personally won't seek funding from traditional methods; but luckily, the world is changing and there are some new non-traditional methods (passive income (subscription, or digital media download), donations to private companies, crowd funding, and who knows whats to come). My company is "in the black," as it has made more money than I've put in, and holds no debt. I'm working on new business model than what I started with. I'm starting small, growing slow, and in it for the long haul. PIH Isn't a bad life, and it is a great way to make it SG w/o accelerators and networking exercises. And oh, I do care about making people's lives better with technology.
- Ixiaus 13y ago
  I think your point-of-view might be a bit parochial. I certainly wasn't arguing that Angels (or VCs) are trouble-free routes for funding a venture. They certainly are difficult, take up a lot of time, don't always know what they are talking about, emotional, &c... However, of the ones that you nab that are smart, experienced, and a joy to work with - make it worthwhile. They can be a lot of trouble, but if you're trying to grow (and I don't think outside funding is appropriate unless you want to grow fast or build something that requires a large amount of capex - like hardware) I think the "funding" culture is essential in elevating the founder's ken. I think PIH is awesome, I have many peers that I would consider to be living that life - so the whole thing is very subjective. I'm primarily arguing against the false notion that investors are bad (only some are), are a waste of time, or "take over your company" (some do, and even then it's only because the founder(s) weren't versed in the "game" and politics of fundraising).

by Ixiaus 13y ago

lotsofcows 13y ago

"big and/or amazing things"? Raised confident, happy children while maintaining their own happiness you mean? I really can't think of anything else. Unless you're talking about fixing poverty, disease or violence on a large scale in which case I'm surprised you've got the time to procrastinate on here.

kbenson 13y ago
> Unless you're talking about fixing poverty, disease or violence on a large scale in which case I'm surprised you've got the time to procrastinate on here. How does that make any sense? Unless he's raised money from or talked to people that have worked on some of the biggest world problems you're surprised he has time to post on HN?
- lotsofcows 13y ago
  GP,WM
Ixiaus 13y ago
So you've decided to take my completely reasonable argument and throw an ad hominem back at me? I almost wonder if you even read the comment, or thoroughly understood what I wrote because your snide tone is so far off from my intention. Lessons of the day: 1. stop trying to be an internet bully, it's unbecoming 2. not all investors are evil 3. the world isn't black & white and when you think something is bad, it most likely means you don't understand it or its context fully
- lotsofcows 13y ago
  Ad hominem? Where? 1 What? 2 What? 3 What? To get back on topic, if you use hyperbolic and grandiose language to describe mundane experience expect to rub people the wrong way. Also, what argument?
  - Ixiaus 13y ago
    Where am I using hyperbolic and grandiose language? You also twisted my argument and tossed in a jab about procrastination - that is completely unrelated to the dialog (an ad hominem?). The argument in which I defended the idea that not all investors are out to get you and that maybe black and white thinking could be expanded to be less absolute. You are still not telling me what you disagree with without sarcastically attacking me. That's being an internet bully.
    - lotsofcows 13y ago
      What? By describing the mundane as "awesome" of course. Do you even read what you type? Twisted your argument? I'm ignoring your argument (I've just re-read the OP and I'm not actually sure what argument you're talking about) and picking you up on your odd choice of words. Re procrastinating, I have never seen a post on hacker news from anyone who is doing big and important things. To my mind, and please feel free to correct me, this strange state of affairs is probably because they're busy. Finally, to make it absolutely clear, as you seem to be having problems with this, I'm disagreeing with your abuse of the word "awesome". Do you always call people who disagree with you, "internet bully"? What's the difference (other than the banally obvious) between an "internet bully" and a "bully"? There's a lot of irony floating around for a guy who doesn't seem too clear on what "ad hominem" means.

jastreich 13y ago

Even if angles don't have a seat, they are still more trouble than their worth, IMHO. I personally won't seek funding from traditional methods; but luckily, the world is changing and there are some new non-traditional methods (passive income (subscription, or digital media download), donations to private companies, crowd funding, and who knows whats to come). My company is "in the black," as it has made more money than I've put in, and holds no debt. I'm working on new business model than what I started with. I'm starting small, growing slow, and in it for the long haul. PIH Isn't a bad life, and it is a great way to make it SG w/o accelerators and networking exercises. And oh, I do care about making people's lives better with technology.

Ixiaus 13y ago
I think your point-of-view might be a bit parochial. I certainly wasn't arguing that Angels (or VCs) are trouble-free routes for funding a venture. They certainly are difficult, take up a lot of time, don't always know what they are talking about, emotional, &c... However, of the ones that you nab that are smart, experienced, and a joy to work with - make it worthwhile. They can be a lot of trouble, but if you're trying to grow (and I don't think outside funding is appropriate unless you want to grow fast or build something that requires a large amount of capex - like hardware) I think the "funding" culture is essential in elevating the founder's ken. I think PIH is awesome, I have many peers that I would consider to be living that life - so the whole thing is very subjective. I'm primarily arguing against the false notion that investors are bad (only some are), are a waste of time, or "take over your company" (some do, and even then it's only because the founder(s) weren't versed in the "game" and politics of fundraising).