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Do we think that services like Mint are handing over all our financial data to the government (making it easy for them to have a picture of your entire finances

Do we think that services like Mint are handing over all our financial data to the government (making it easy for them to have a picture of your entire finances)? If so, are there any viable, offline alternatives?

a3n 13y ago
text files, paper statements and your file cabinet. There are various open source check register and book keeping packages. GnuCash is complete but possibly overkill for some people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_softwa...
uptown 13y ago
Probably. They also scoop up all your credit card transactions, so for in-person purchases, they've got your location logged there as well. http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/06/wsj-nsa-program-also-tracking-credit-card-transactions http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/06/wsj-nsa-progra...
coldarchon 13y ago
http://sourceforge.net/directory/os:windows/freshness:recently-updated/?q=finance http://sourceforge.net/directory/os:windows/freshness:recent... GNU cash seems fine, personally I use YNAB which gets saved in the clouds of Steam. http://store.steampowered.com/app/227320/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/227320/
scrabble 13y ago
I could never sign up for Mint. I see the value in it, but providing a private business with a view into all my financial accounts just seems like a huge mistake.
- sgrove 13y ago
  Other than banks, creditors, and credit-score companies? I imagine there are far more businesses with access to view our financial accounts than we realize day-to-day.
  - scrabble 13y ago
    I'm sure you're correct. But as far as I know, my bank can't look at my accounts that are with other financial companies.
- sp332 13y ago
  It's not just that, but they use information in your accounts to recommend other companies' products. Today I got a notification that I was paying more than average for car insurance, with a link to a competing product.
howeyc 13y ago
If you like text files, there's ledger : http://ledger-cli.org/ http://ledger-cli.org/
girvo 13y ago
For what it's worth, I'm working on a Mint competitor of sorts (that takes advantage of Machine Learning to automatically help you save. It will be based in Australia, not the US, and the basic app will be released as open source for personal self hosting.
- deanpcmad 13y ago
  That sounds good. I'd be interested in seeing the open source version
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- rlvesco7 13y ago
  This is interesting. Machine learning requires data. Will the app be sending back up anonymized data that then gets used to help the app make better decisions? Or how else will you make your app smart like Mint? Can't wait to see what you're doing.
  - girvo 13y ago
    The former is what we are doing, but coupling it with some basic statistical financial methods (and some stuff I've come up with myself!) that you can rely on if you'd rather not send the information. That's also what the cheapest plan for our hosted version relies on. The entire premise is personal finance software that learns your habits to make it easier to use :)
- Arnor 13y ago
  After reading rlvesco7's comment, I immediately deleted my Mint account. It always made me uncomfortable to have all my financial data sitting in the cloud. I stopped actively using it a few months ago. An open source service sounds interesting, but I don't think I'll ever be willing to post all my financial data to a web service again. It would be great to have a locally installed application that could keep track of all those accounts. Having some algorithms run to help me save would be great, but it would take some demonstrated assurances to get me to provide even anonymous data for the machine learning process.
john_b 13y ago
Never mind Mint, if your bank accounts are in the US your financial data is already available for inspection by the IRS, DHS, and probably many other three letter agencies. I'd wager that Mint, not being a bank, has far less an obligation to hand over your financial data than the banks you have accounts with.
mrerrormessage 13y ago
Check out GNUCash. I've been using it for about a year. Entering all your stuff is tedious, but it's open source and integrates with some banks (also import from Quicken and CSV).
mahyarm 13y ago
The US already has complete financial surveillance over all US financial activity that isn't a cash trade, and they've been expanding it around the globe aggressively. For decades.
rayiner 13y ago
In this day and age where everyone does everything through credit cards, everyone already has all your financial data. Certainly the government does, and the credit card companies hand information out like candy.
superuser2 13y ago
The government having access to your financial data is a prerequisite for a functioning tax system. If you are audited, the IRS has the right to look inside your bank accounts. The policies (or location) of online budgeting tools are entirely irrelevant. Hiding financial data from the government involves well established trades dating to long before the internet (or PRISM): money laundering and tax evasion.

a3n 13y ago

text files, paper statements and your file cabinet. There are various open source check register and book keeping packages. GnuCash is complete but possibly overkill for some people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_softwa...

uptown 13y ago

Probably. They also scoop up all your credit card transactions, so for in-person purchases, they've got your location logged there as well. http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/06/wsj-nsa-program-also-tracking-credit-card-transactions http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/06/wsj-nsa-progra...

coldarchon 13y ago

http://sourceforge.net/directory/os:windows/freshness:recently-updated/?q=finance http://sourceforge.net/directory/os:windows/freshness:recent... GNU cash seems fine, personally I use YNAB which gets saved in the clouds of Steam. http://store.steampowered.com/app/227320/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/227320/

scrabble 13y ago

I could never sign up for Mint. I see the value in it, but providing a private business with a view into all my financial accounts just seems like a huge mistake.

sgrove 13y ago
Other than banks, creditors, and credit-score companies? I imagine there are far more businesses with access to view our financial accounts than we realize day-to-day.
- scrabble 13y ago
  I'm sure you're correct. But as far as I know, my bank can't look at my accounts that are with other financial companies.
sp332 13y ago
It's not just that, but they use information in your accounts to recommend other companies' products. Today I got a notification that I was paying more than average for car insurance, with a link to a competing product.

howeyc 13y ago

If you like text files, there's ledger : http://ledger-cli.org/ http://ledger-cli.org/

girvo 13y ago

For what it's worth, I'm working on a Mint competitor of sorts (that takes advantage of Machine Learning to automatically help you save. It will be based in Australia, not the US, and the basic app will be released as open source for personal self hosting.

deanpcmad 13y ago
That sounds good. I'd be interested in seeing the open source version
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
rlvesco7 13y ago
This is interesting. Machine learning requires data. Will the app be sending back up anonymized data that then gets used to help the app make better decisions? Or how else will you make your app smart like Mint? Can't wait to see what you're doing.
- girvo 13y ago
  The former is what we are doing, but coupling it with some basic statistical financial methods (and some stuff I've come up with myself!) that you can rely on if you'd rather not send the information. That's also what the cheapest plan for our hosted version relies on. The entire premise is personal finance software that learns your habits to make it easier to use :)
Arnor 13y ago
After reading rlvesco7's comment, I immediately deleted my Mint account. It always made me uncomfortable to have all my financial data sitting in the cloud. I stopped actively using it a few months ago. An open source service sounds interesting, but I don't think I'll ever be willing to post all my financial data to a web service again. It would be great to have a locally installed application that could keep track of all those accounts. Having some algorithms run to help me save would be great, but it would take some demonstrated assurances to get me to provide even anonymous data for the machine learning process.

john_b 13y ago

Never mind Mint, if your bank accounts are in the US your financial data is already available for inspection by the IRS, DHS, and probably many other three letter agencies. I'd wager that Mint, not being a bank, has far less an obligation to hand over your financial data than the banks you have accounts with.

mrerrormessage 13y ago

Check out GNUCash. I've been using it for about a year. Entering all your stuff is tedious, but it's open source and integrates with some banks (also import from Quicken and CSV).

mahyarm 13y ago

The US already has complete financial surveillance over all US financial activity that isn't a cash trade, and they've been expanding it around the globe aggressively. For decades.

rayiner 13y ago

In this day and age where everyone does everything through credit cards, everyone already has all your financial data. Certainly the government does, and the credit card companies hand information out like candy.

superuser2 13y ago

The government having access to your financial data is a prerequisite for a functioning tax system. If you are audited, the IRS has the right to look inside your bank accounts. The policies (or location) of online budgeting tools are entirely irrelevant. Hiding financial data from the government involves well established trades dating to long before the internet (or PRISM): money laundering and tax evasion.