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Even with all the Snowden articles I've read over the past few months, nothing has made me want to start manufacturing tin foil clothing more than this article

Even with all the Snowden articles I've read over the past few months, nothing has made me want to start manufacturing tin foil clothing more than this article just did.

stephengillie 13y ago
If they can do this in RF frequencies to which our bodies are opaque, how long before they can do this in RF frequencies to which our bodies are transparent?
- whatshisface 13y ago
  If a frequency has to go right through you without loosing energy, then none of the energy can be put in to modifying neurons. Of course, you could do like they do with radiation therapy and have lots of low-absorption beams converge on a single spot.
  - samatman 13y ago
    You would have to do this anyway, with at least three beams. That or implant a fiber.
  - cstavish 13y ago
    Reading the parent comment caused me to gasp out an "oh shit" which was immediately quieted by your comment.
- return0 13y ago
  You are taking it a bit too far
- etrautmann 13y ago
  They can't. An RF antenna for useful wavelengths is much bigger than the size of the proteins you can genetically engineer. We CAN engineer proteins sensitive to light (eg: use the ones that are already present in your retina, and connect them to an ion channel typically found in a neuron). What you're proposing is not simple (though WOULD be immensely helpful for neuroscience research...)
etrautmann 13y ago
Then the title is slightly misleading. The beam of light is not sufficient for creating the memory, just part of the process. The other thing not mentioned in the title is that the mice are either genetically engineered to have neurons that express light sensitive proteins, or have been injected with a virus that makes these neurons sensitive to light.
- stephengillie 13y ago
  What would it take to make this virus airborne?
  - etrautmann 13y ago
    Even if that were possible, and i suspect that it's either not or very hard, you would still need to get a fiber-optic cable through your skull and into your brain. Shining a light into your eyes isn't going to do anything in this context.
- charlieflowers 13y ago
  No, they actually mentioned that they used a virus to modify the neurons such that they would express the right protein when hit by the correct color of light. The beam of light doesn't create the memory -- it triggers a remembrance of the memory.
- Alex3917 13y ago
  > Then the title is slightly misleading. The whole story is BS. There is zero evidence that they implanted any sort of memory, let alone a false one. All they've shown is that when the mice encounter situation X, they are afraid because their memories of situation X are associated with fear. Basically it's like how if you have a nightmare about dying in a car crash then you may be afraid of driving the next day, but that doesn't mean that you have a memory of actually dying in a car crash.
  - etrautmann 13y ago
    It's certainly not an uninteresting or invalid scientific result, but the interpretations tend to get a little overblown. This is an unfortunately common theme in neuroscience, especially recently.
wikiburner 13y ago
If anyone's interested in how this might play out, be sure to check out the Joss Whedon TV series Dollhouse. It's on Netflix Instant, and is really pretty great Sci-Fi.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  Half the episodes are crappy filler. Half the episodes are solid gold, some of the best neuro/cyber-punk out there.

Even with all the Snowden articles I've read over the past few months, nothing has made me want to start manufacturing tin foil clothing more than this article just did.

stephengillie 13y ago

If they can do this in RF frequencies to which our bodies are opaque, how long before they can do this in RF frequencies to which our bodies are transparent?

whatshisface 13y ago
If a frequency has to go right through you without loosing energy, then none of the energy can be put in to modifying neurons. Of course, you could do like they do with radiation therapy and have lots of low-absorption beams converge on a single spot.
- samatman 13y ago
  You would have to do this anyway, with at least three beams. That or implant a fiber.
- cstavish 13y ago
  Reading the parent comment caused me to gasp out an "oh shit" which was immediately quieted by your comment.
return0 13y ago
You are taking it a bit too far
etrautmann 13y ago
They can't. An RF antenna for useful wavelengths is much bigger than the size of the proteins you can genetically engineer. We CAN engineer proteins sensitive to light (eg: use the ones that are already present in your retina, and connect them to an ion channel typically found in a neuron). What you're proposing is not simple (though WOULD be immensely helpful for neuroscience research...)

etrautmann 13y ago

Then the title is slightly misleading. The beam of light is not sufficient for creating the memory, just part of the process. The other thing not mentioned in the title is that the mice are either genetically engineered to have neurons that express light sensitive proteins, or have been injected with a virus that makes these neurons sensitive to light.

stephengillie 13y ago
What would it take to make this virus airborne?
- etrautmann 13y ago
  Even if that were possible, and i suspect that it's either not or very hard, you would still need to get a fiber-optic cable through your skull and into your brain. Shining a light into your eyes isn't going to do anything in this context.
charlieflowers 13y ago
No, they actually mentioned that they used a virus to modify the neurons such that they would express the right protein when hit by the correct color of light. The beam of light doesn't create the memory -- it triggers a remembrance of the memory.
Alex3917 13y ago
> Then the title is slightly misleading. The whole story is BS. There is zero evidence that they implanted any sort of memory, let alone a false one. All they've shown is that when the mice encounter situation X, they are afraid because their memories of situation X are associated with fear. Basically it's like how if you have a nightmare about dying in a car crash then you may be afraid of driving the next day, but that doesn't mean that you have a memory of actually dying in a car crash.
- etrautmann 13y ago
  It's certainly not an uninteresting or invalid scientific result, but the interpretations tend to get a little overblown. This is an unfortunately common theme in neuroscience, especially recently.

wikiburner 13y ago

If anyone's interested in how this might play out, be sure to check out the Joss Whedon TV series Dollhouse. It's on Netflix Instant, and is really pretty great Sci-Fi.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Half the episodes are crappy filler. Half the episodes are solid gold, some of the best neuro/cyber-punk out there.