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( fourth paragraph ) Why are you comparing a bad developer from Croatia with a good one from somewhere else( USA I assume ). The situation might as well be rev

by deletes 13y ago

( fourth paragraph ) Why are you comparing a bad developer from Croatia with a good one from somewhere else( USA I assume ). The situation might as well be reversed, you can't assume someones skill from their geographical location.

skilesare 13y ago
He probably should have said 'the chance of a bad developer from...' If you are local and have references your risk is drastically reduced. Clients pay for that.
skilesare 13y ago
Also, no one talks about their awesome Croatian developer...its like a trade secret. Everyone talks about their horror stories.
moron4hire 13y ago
Allow me to explain: From their geographic location, I can assume that they are likely to charge significantly less than me. From the quality of just plain not being me, I can assume they aren't as good as me. I have yet to have experience prove this assumption wrong. I've worked on projects with other developers in San Diego, Chicago, Miami, Iran, India, Croatia, and many other places. They've all been pretty crappy developers whom I can only imagine lied about their credentials, because I just can't imagine how it is possible they make any software for anyone. The client has eventually fired them all because they realized what a bad deal they were. The only difference between them was the hourly rate they charged, meaning there were often more from India than San Diego.
- gperetin 13y ago
  Developer from Croatia here :) Yes we do charge less because of our geographic location, but I wouldn't say significantly less, or maybe not at rates you are talking about ($100/hr really isn't that much). That said, I spent 2 months in San Francisco this summer and was able to find a job for higher rate just because I was there. I guess it comes with territory. :)
  - ankitml 13y ago
    Location has heavy influence on prices.. look at other professional services even inside US. Doctors / counselors / lawyers etc.. everyone's prices depends on location. On the other hand you cant say about quality. Ya India has lots of crappy developers, but that is just because there are way to many developers. Good ones dont need to market themselves too much and hence most people would have never heard about them outside their circle of clients.
- codecool 13y ago
  This assumption is just plain wrong. Those clients just jump on seeing such low rates without checking work first. If one's hiring process is not good then bad hires are bound to happen no matter if the hire is Indian or American.
  - moron4hire 13y ago
    Actually, the fact that the clients jump at price without evaluating work is exactly why the assumptions are correct.
    - codecool 13y ago
      No, low price bad developers are bad but this assumption says all low price developers are bad. There is a difference!
      - moron4hire 13y ago
        No, I said that most developers, regardless of price, are bad, and most overseas developers, regardless of quality, are cheap. Thus, the intersection of the two makes for a large volume of low-price, low-quality developers.
maratd 13y ago
> The situation might as well be reversed, you can't assume someones skill from their geographical location. You most certainly can. I can tell you that the average developer hired from India will have a significantly reduced skillset than one hired in the US. If that's not polite in civilized company, well then, tough. That said, it's largely irrelevant. What's truly relevant are culture differences and you do not want to deal with them. Hire locally. If you're in Croatia, hire in Croatia. If you're in India, hire in India. If you're in the US, hire in the US. The reduced amount of grief and clear communication is worth it. Never-mind that you're in the same timezone as well.
- jes5199 13y ago
  Yeah. Everyone I know who has had a good experience with an overseas shop has said "of course, we keep one of our employees over there full time working directly with them, which ends up being kind of expensive"

by deletes 13y ago

skilesare 13y ago

He probably should have said 'the chance of a bad developer from...' If you are local and have references your risk is drastically reduced. Clients pay for that.

skilesare 13y ago

Also, no one talks about their awesome Croatian developer...its like a trade secret. Everyone talks about their horror stories.

moron4hire 13y ago

Allow me to explain: From their geographic location, I can assume that they are likely to charge significantly less than me. From the quality of just plain not being me, I can assume they aren't as good as me. I have yet to have experience prove this assumption wrong. I've worked on projects with other developers in San Diego, Chicago, Miami, Iran, India, Croatia, and many other places. They've all been pretty crappy developers whom I can only imagine lied about their credentials, because I just can't imagine how it is possible they make any software for anyone. The client has eventually fired them all because they realized what a bad deal they were. The only difference between them was the hourly rate they charged, meaning there were often more from India than San Diego.

gperetin 13y ago
Developer from Croatia here :) Yes we do charge less because of our geographic location, but I wouldn't say significantly less, or maybe not at rates you are talking about ($100/hr really isn't that much). That said, I spent 2 months in San Francisco this summer and was able to find a job for higher rate just because I was there. I guess it comes with territory. :)
- ankitml 13y ago
  Location has heavy influence on prices.. look at other professional services even inside US. Doctors / counselors / lawyers etc.. everyone's prices depends on location. On the other hand you cant say about quality. Ya India has lots of crappy developers, but that is just because there are way to many developers. Good ones dont need to market themselves too much and hence most people would have never heard about them outside their circle of clients.
codecool 13y ago
This assumption is just plain wrong. Those clients just jump on seeing such low rates without checking work first. If one's hiring process is not good then bad hires are bound to happen no matter if the hire is Indian or American.
- moron4hire 13y ago
  Actually, the fact that the clients jump at price without evaluating work is exactly why the assumptions are correct.
  - codecool 13y ago
    No, low price bad developers are bad but this assumption says all low price developers are bad. There is a difference!
    - moron4hire 13y ago
      No, I said that most developers, regardless of price, are bad, and most overseas developers, regardless of quality, are cheap. Thus, the intersection of the two makes for a large volume of low-price, low-quality developers.

maratd 13y ago

> The situation might as well be reversed, you can't assume someones skill from their geographical location. You most certainly can. I can tell you that the average developer hired from India will have a significantly reduced skillset than one hired in the US. If that's not polite in civilized company, well then, tough. That said, it's largely irrelevant. What's truly relevant are culture differences and you do not want to deal with them. Hire locally. If you're in Croatia, hire in Croatia. If you're in India, hire in India. If you're in the US, hire in the US. The reduced amount of grief and clear communication is worth it. Never-mind that you're in the same timezone as well.

jes5199 13y ago
Yeah. Everyone I know who has had a good experience with an overseas shop has said "of course, we keep one of our employees over there full time working directly with them, which ends up being kind of expensive"