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Like with everything else than maybe virus outbreak, most changes takes time to affect entire community, economy or a country. Rome wasn't built in a day, so th

Like with everything else than maybe virus outbreak, most changes takes time to affect entire community, economy or a country. Rome wasn't built in a day, so the Rome Empire didn't collapse in a day neither. Take me as an example. I am 8 years in US, married to US citizen. Green Card holder now and couple years ago our plan was for me to become a US Citizen and us to raise our kids on US soil. Not anymore. With all the outcoming gov scandals, with government forcing you to vaccine your kids, with you or your children going to jail for drawing a gun, for swat team breaking into your house because you are selling raw milk, for all this growing nonsense and my personal disgust with president that calls death of 4 us officials in Bengazi a "phony scandal", I am genuinely sick and disgusted of this to my deeper core. And here comes important part: so you say to me in response: if you don't like it, move out! And you are damn right! We made this decision recently and right now my wife is learning my native language while I am shifting more towards doing more remote programming gigs. Surprisingly after I moved here from the country of communism, now it seems safer and more sane back in Europe than here! Europe has its problems of course, but honestly I believe Europe will deteriorate much slower than US. Here everything is on fast forward and yes examples like Manning or Snowden revelations and lack of echo makes it hard to believe anything will change for better in the future. I believe I am not the only one who draw this conclusion lately. I also think that many smart people coming to this country to live "american dream" are also smart enough to realize the economical situation become so unstable that its better to "wait and see" back home.

jessaustin 13y ago
Thanks for your perspective. I wonder which hot-button you pushed that caused the downvotes? My suspicion would be vaccination, but I'm not ruling out the gun-illustration (the word "drawing" is ambiguous in this case) or Bengazi...
- kyzyl 13y ago
  Indeed, the downvotes seem bizarre to me. This response just looks like somebody sharing their experience in the matter in a coherent way. It could also be someone who doesn't want attention drawn away from their post. Anyhow, I'm in Canada right now, and am in the next few years probably looking to change careers. I have good contacts with several top-tier tech companies in the US, and also with the auto industry and big oil. I've never really had much of a desire to live in the US, but now more than ever I'm finding myself looking to other potentially less lucrative positions just because of my distaste, much like the post above. It really doesn't feel like a good time to be living in the US as a foreigner with an engineering degree, a very foreign sounding name and very liberal views. :-/
sillysaurus 13y ago
With all the outcoming gov scandals, with government forcing you to vaccine your kids... All other points aside for a moment: the government should force each and every parent to vaccinate their children. Herd immunity is a key factor in protecting most of the population from many awful diseases, and herd immunity is only effective if the vast majority are vaccinated. There's no credible evidence that vaccination causes autism or any other malady.
- joering2 13y ago
  Yes vaccination is NOT a billion dollar business, vaccines do not kill people, and its perfectly logic you need to get shots against other peoples diseases BUT at the same time those who don't become a danger to you, yes. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/1996/12/01/218857/ http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/199... http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/03/14/the-danger-of-excessive-vaccination-during-brain-development.aspx http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/03/1... http://vaccinedangers.com/ http://vaccinedangers.com/ http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/neurological_damage.htm http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/neurological_damage.... http://vactruth.com/2013/02/23/17-examples-of-vaccine-failure/ http://vactruth.com/2013/02/23/17-examples-of-vaccine-failur... I could go on and on here like the vaccines business is create problem & offer solution infinite loop, but I hope you can do a research on your own.
  - sillysaurus 13y ago
    If you don't feel like putting in a serious effort into presenting your argument, then I see no reason why anyone should take it seriously.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    I know you are probably far too far down that rabbit hole to hear me, but herd immunity is vital for those who do not have the option of getting vaccinated.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    > I could go on and on here like the vaccines business is create problem & offer solution infinite loop Except that we know the backstory to this particular chicken/egg problem, and we know that in this case vaccines came last, after the problem they were meant to solve (and, substantially speaking, have solved). America's longest-serving President was crippled no less than 100 years ago by a disease which vaccination can now prevent, and you're blaming Big Pharma for that???

jessaustin 13y ago

Thanks for your perspective. I wonder which hot-button you pushed that caused the downvotes? My suspicion would be vaccination, but I'm not ruling out the gun-illustration (the word "drawing" is ambiguous in this case) or Bengazi...

kyzyl 13y ago
Indeed, the downvotes seem bizarre to me. This response just looks like somebody sharing their experience in the matter in a coherent way. It could also be someone who doesn't want attention drawn away from their post. Anyhow, I'm in Canada right now, and am in the next few years probably looking to change careers. I have good contacts with several top-tier tech companies in the US, and also with the auto industry and big oil. I've never really had much of a desire to live in the US, but now more than ever I'm finding myself looking to other potentially less lucrative positions just because of my distaste, much like the post above. It really doesn't feel like a good time to be living in the US as a foreigner with an engineering degree, a very foreign sounding name and very liberal views. :-/

sillysaurus 13y ago

With all the outcoming gov scandals, with government forcing you to vaccine your kids... All other points aside for a moment: the government should force each and every parent to vaccinate their children. Herd immunity is a key factor in protecting most of the population from many awful diseases, and herd immunity is only effective if the vast majority are vaccinated. There's no credible evidence that vaccination causes autism or any other malady.

joering2 13y ago
Yes vaccination is NOT a billion dollar business, vaccines do not kill people, and its perfectly logic you need to get shots against other peoples diseases BUT at the same time those who don't become a danger to you, yes. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/1996/12/01/218857/ http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/199... http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/03/14/the-danger-of-excessive-vaccination-during-brain-development.aspx http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/03/1... http://vaccinedangers.com/ http://vaccinedangers.com/ http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/neurological_damage.htm http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/neurological_damage.... http://vactruth.com/2013/02/23/17-examples-of-vaccine-failure/ http://vactruth.com/2013/02/23/17-examples-of-vaccine-failur... I could go on and on here like the vaccines business is create problem & offer solution infinite loop, but I hope you can do a research on your own.
- sillysaurus 13y ago
  If you don't feel like putting in a serious effort into presenting your argument, then I see no reason why anyone should take it seriously.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  I know you are probably far too far down that rabbit hole to hear me, but herd immunity is vital for those who do not have the option of getting vaccinated.
- mpyne 13y ago
  > I could go on and on here like the vaccines business is create problem & offer solution infinite loop Except that we know the backstory to this particular chicken/egg problem, and we know that in this case vaccines came last, after the problem they were meant to solve (and, substantially speaking, have solved). America's longest-serving President was crippled no less than 100 years ago by a disease which vaccination can now prevent, and you're blaming Big Pharma for that???