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> I was under the impression that Microsoft was aware of how important keeping 3rd-party developers happy If Microsoft started alienating the very high number

> I was under the impression that Microsoft was aware of how important keeping 3rd-party developers happy If Microsoft started alienating the very high number of Windows (desktop) developers (which is going to be higher than the OS X community for a foreseeable future), do you think they'd just abandon the platform?

janardanyri 13y ago
Most already have. Looking backward, the primary competition has been web, not OS X. Looking forward, the ascent of mobile is only making it easier to deprioritise Windows.
gpcz 13y ago
In terms of Windows, developers are already entrenched in the system either through lock-in or business decisions imposing Windows on them. Those types of developers are unlikely to abandon the platform no matter how much Microsoft treats them like cattle. On the other hand, I'd say alienating the developer community would prevent hackers from making things for new(er) Microsoft platforms like Windows Phone or Azure. Things that might have been the killer app for that platform.
- Silhouette 13y ago
  developers are already entrenched in the system ... Those types of developers are unlikely to abandon the platform no matter how much Microsoft treats them like cattle. The benefit to Microsoft of having developers on-side is that those developers write applications that make Microsoft's platforms valuable to their customers. No developer capable of writing platform-defining applications is ever tied more than casually to a specific platform. If Microsoft alienates the developer community, Windows is dead. Whether its successor would be OS X or Linux or iOS or Android or something else entirely is hard to predict, but that is irrelevant to Microsoft's fate.
  - LaGrange 13y ago
    The benefit to Microsoft of having developers on-side is that those developers write applications that make Microsoft's platforms valuable to their customers. What, Office? No. Microsoft actually writes the core software that makes their platform valuable. There are developers that provide additional value, and that's very important, but I don't think it's easy for developers to force Microsofts hand in that. Edit: in fact, the power gradient goes the other way: as a developer of an end-user application for a PC, you still have to very strongly consider writing for Windows whether you like it or not, because of the software written by Microsoft providing the core value for customers.
    - rbanffy 13y ago
      > What, Office? No. Microsoft actually writes the core software that makes their platform valuable. What about the thousands of games, utilities, applications that make Windows so though to eradicate from the average business? Windows RT offers little more than that core value and the market shows clearly it's a failure.
      - LaGrange 13y ago
        The games and utilities are there because of Office, not the other way around, and both were made in huge amounts for other systems, then retreated, and are getting ported back to e.g. macs only now (think Autodesk stuff), and this is more due to Office becoming less relevant than anything else.
        TylerE 13y ago
        No so sure I buy that.... for one thing most components of the Office suite were available (Yes, from Microsoft!) on the Mac years before they shipped for Windows.
      - nimblegorilla 13y ago
        Like you say, "thousands of games, utilities, apps". Even if half of their 3rd party developers left they would still have thousands of apps.
- rmc 13y ago
  On the other hand, I'd say alienating the developer community would prevent hackers from making things for new(er) Microsoft platforms like Windows Phone or Azure. Things that might have been the killer app for that platform. Hasn't that already happened though? This is Microsoft with 20 years of bad press in hacker-circles we're talking about!
  - mattmanser 13y ago
    No, 20 years of froth-spitting, slathering linux crazies not understanding why reasonable people and developers choose the incredibly easy to use Windows over the ever shifting quick sand of linux. That's obviously a bit of a joke but it is in fact all a matter of perspective. Most people think the world is populated with clones of them and their friends/colleagues. It's not. Until 5 years ago Macs and Linux weren't even a vaguely viable option for selling software.
    - rmc 13y ago
      5 years ago the web was a viable option. (Just look at Google & Facebook) pg's "Microsoft is dead": http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html

janardanyri 13y ago

Most already have. Looking backward, the primary competition has been web, not OS X. Looking forward, the ascent of mobile is only making it easier to deprioritise Windows.

gpcz 13y ago

In terms of Windows, developers are already entrenched in the system either through lock-in or business decisions imposing Windows on them. Those types of developers are unlikely to abandon the platform no matter how much Microsoft treats them like cattle. On the other hand, I'd say alienating the developer community would prevent hackers from making things for new(er) Microsoft platforms like Windows Phone or Azure. Things that might have been the killer app for that platform.

Silhouette 13y ago
developers are already entrenched in the system ... Those types of developers are unlikely to abandon the platform no matter how much Microsoft treats them like cattle. The benefit to Microsoft of having developers on-side is that those developers write applications that make Microsoft's platforms valuable to their customers. No developer capable of writing platform-defining applications is ever tied more than casually to a specific platform. If Microsoft alienates the developer community, Windows is dead. Whether its successor would be OS X or Linux or iOS or Android or something else entirely is hard to predict, but that is irrelevant to Microsoft's fate.
- LaGrange 13y ago
  The benefit to Microsoft of having developers on-side is that those developers write applications that make Microsoft's platforms valuable to their customers. What, Office? No. Microsoft actually writes the core software that makes their platform valuable. There are developers that provide additional value, and that's very important, but I don't think it's easy for developers to force Microsofts hand in that. Edit: in fact, the power gradient goes the other way: as a developer of an end-user application for a PC, you still have to very strongly consider writing for Windows whether you like it or not, because of the software written by Microsoft providing the core value for customers.
  - rbanffy 13y ago
    > What, Office? No. Microsoft actually writes the core software that makes their platform valuable. What about the thousands of games, utilities, applications that make Windows so though to eradicate from the average business? Windows RT offers little more than that core value and the market shows clearly it's a failure.
    - LaGrange 13y ago
      The games and utilities are there because of Office, not the other way around, and both were made in huge amounts for other systems, then retreated, and are getting ported back to e.g. macs only now (think Autodesk stuff), and this is more due to Office becoming less relevant than anything else.
      - TylerE 13y ago
        No so sure I buy that.... for one thing most components of the Office suite were available (Yes, from Microsoft!) on the Mac years before they shipped for Windows.
    - nimblegorilla 13y ago
      Like you say, "thousands of games, utilities, apps". Even if half of their 3rd party developers left they would still have thousands of apps.
rmc 13y ago
On the other hand, I'd say alienating the developer community would prevent hackers from making things for new(er) Microsoft platforms like Windows Phone or Azure. Things that might have been the killer app for that platform. Hasn't that already happened though? This is Microsoft with 20 years of bad press in hacker-circles we're talking about!
- mattmanser 13y ago
  No, 20 years of froth-spitting, slathering linux crazies not understanding why reasonable people and developers choose the incredibly easy to use Windows over the ever shifting quick sand of linux. That's obviously a bit of a joke but it is in fact all a matter of perspective. Most people think the world is populated with clones of them and their friends/colleagues. It's not. Until 5 years ago Macs and Linux weren't even a vaguely viable option for selling software.
  - rmc 13y ago
    5 years ago the web was a viable option. (Just look at Google & Facebook) pg's "Microsoft is dead": http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html