4 ms·

agreed, especially how quickly it came together and how hard the Dem establishment came down on it. I hope that this is the seed for a strongly bi-partisan grou

agreed, especially how quickly it came together and how hard the Dem establishment came down on it. I hope that this is the seed for a strongly bi-partisan group of legislators concerned about civil liberties.

Silhouette 13y ago
especially how quickly it came together There was some great coverage of this on the BBC[1] earlier today, before the result was known: (Quotation begins) However, the White House said the measure would deprive the intelligence agencies of a key tool in preventing terror attacks. "This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open or deliberative process," said spokesman Jay Carney. (Quotation ends) [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23430126 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23430126 (emphasis added)
- lettergram 13y ago
  Of course Jay Carney's statement was pretty ironic... Can't have an informed discussion on something that everyone lies about.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    Not to mention the sheer lack of informed discussion when passing the PATRIOT Act in the first place.
eli 13y ago
A majority of House Democrats voted for it. That is a significant rebuke of the Obama administration.
- _delirium 13y ago
  Yes, the numbers were: Republicans: 94 yea, 134 nay (41% in favor) Democrats: 111 yea, 83 nay (57% in favor) Not too surprising, since traditionally "strong on national security" is a core GOP position, and the party establishment tends to see civil-liberties challenges to national security policy as misguided. That might overrule any partisan instinct to vote against Obama.
  - jcdavis 13y ago
    is there a link of the individual votes? govtrack.us doesn't look to be that up to date
    - _delirium 13y ago
      Yes, it was just posted: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml I had looked when I posted my comment so I could link it along with the numbers, but 25 mins ago it wasn't up yet.
  - rralian 13y ago
    Just talking out my butt here, but I think on most votes they have a pretty good idea of where most congresspeople plan to vote and whether or not the amendment will pass. So if some republicans knew it wouldn't pass with their yea vote, they could have felt comfortable giving it a yea as taking credit for standing up to "the administration." Whereas they may not have actually given that vote if they thought it mattered. This opinion is based on no other data than watching House of Cards on netflix and Veep on HBO.
    - ajays 13y ago
      This. The general public has no idea how much posturing is involved in such votes. These people will even trade votes: the Dem says "Please, I want to appear strong on defence, so I'll vote no, while you (the Republican) can vote yes". Source: knew a couple of people who had worked as aides to congresscritters
    - falk 13y ago
      I think this tweet is pretty spot on: "Rotating Villains strike again: Just enough liberals inexplicably voted no on NSA restrictions to make it the way Obama wanted." https://twitter.com/brmull/status/360192763502931968 https://twitter.com/brmull/status/360192763502931968
      - eli 13y ago

Silhouette 13y ago

especially how quickly it came together There was some great coverage of this on the BBC[1] earlier today, before the result was known: (Quotation begins) However, the White House said the measure would deprive the intelligence agencies of a key tool in preventing terror attacks. "This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open or deliberative process," said spokesman Jay Carney. (Quotation ends) [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23430126 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23430126 (emphasis added)

lettergram 13y ago
Of course Jay Carney's statement was pretty ironic... Can't have an informed discussion on something that everyone lies about.
- rhizome 13y ago
  Not to mention the sheer lack of informed discussion when passing the PATRIOT Act in the first place.

eli 13y ago

A majority of House Democrats voted for it. That is a significant rebuke of the Obama administration.

_delirium 13y ago
Yes, the numbers were: Republicans: 94 yea, 134 nay (41% in favor) Democrats: 111 yea, 83 nay (57% in favor) Not too surprising, since traditionally "strong on national security" is a core GOP position, and the party establishment tends to see civil-liberties challenges to national security policy as misguided. That might overrule any partisan instinct to vote against Obama.
- jcdavis 13y ago
  is there a link of the individual votes? govtrack.us doesn't look to be that up to date
  - _delirium 13y ago
    Yes, it was just posted: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml I had looked when I posted my comment so I could link it along with the numbers, but 25 mins ago it wasn't up yet.
- rralian 13y ago
  Just talking out my butt here, but I think on most votes they have a pretty good idea of where most congresspeople plan to vote and whether or not the amendment will pass. So if some republicans knew it wouldn't pass with their yea vote, they could have felt comfortable giving it a yea as taking credit for standing up to "the administration." Whereas they may not have actually given that vote if they thought it mattered. This opinion is based on no other data than watching House of Cards on netflix and Veep on HBO.
  - ajays 13y ago
    This. The general public has no idea how much posturing is involved in such votes. These people will even trade votes: the Dem says "Please, I want to appear strong on defence, so I'll vote no, while you (the Republican) can vote yes". Source: knew a couple of people who had worked as aides to congresscritters
  - falk 13y ago
    I think this tweet is pretty spot on: "Rotating Villains strike again: Just enough liberals inexplicably voted no on NSA restrictions to make it the way Obama wanted." https://twitter.com/brmull/status/360192763502931968 https://twitter.com/brmull/status/360192763502931968
    - eli 13y ago