5 ms·

Probably. But can any one name one trust-able perfect country that would give a Snowden type asylum purely on principle, rather than for political reasons? I'l

by alan_cx 13y ago

Probably. But can any one name one trust-able perfect country that would give a Snowden type asylum purely on principle, rather than for political reasons? I'll be honest, Im struggling to think of one.

dotcoma 13y ago
Germany should, as explained here: http://ind.pn/12ix0rD http://ind.pn/12ix0rD But unfortunately it won't :-/
- kwal0203 13y ago
  Germany was in on the spying act itself. Hypocrites to suggest they have some type of moral superiority over the US.
  - eli 13y ago
    Are there any countries that don't spy on people?
    - mafribe 13y ago
      All countries spy on their citizens. The real questions are twofold: (1) how reliable is the information that the political decision makers obtain from spying, and (2) how democratic and transparent are the spying operations, how much control do the citizens have over the spying operations. NSA-like spying is probably the most reliable in history, but how the information gets transformed on the way to decision makers, and what democratic control we have probably leaves a lot to be desired and must improve. Snowden is a hero because his actions have given us incentive and data to improve the world of secret services.
- qznc 13y ago
  He applied to Germany and was rejected due to "missing requirements". No official statement was given what requirements exactly were missing. Probably, because you have to be on german ground (or very near) to apply. The application itself is declared confidential due to privacy reasons. Essentially, our government does not want Snowden to enter Germany.
  - mseebach 13y ago
    So, it's obvious that it's not politically convenient for Germany (or most other western countries) to grant Snowden asylum, even if they wanted to. But legally, he doesn't have a very clear-cut case: The 1951 United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees which is the legal framework for asylum, defines the criteria as having a well-founded fear of persecution because of one's race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership of a particular social group. The only category that might fit is "political opinion", but holding a certain political opinion is not a license to commit a crime (which, unambiguously, Snowden is guilty of), especially when laws against the exact same activity is on the books in the countries he's applying to. Has it not been for the much too heavy-handed treatment of Manning, he couldn't even claim fear of prosecution: getting a fair trial in a court of law isn't prosecution.
    - SimHacker 13y ago
      Maybe he has a prosecution complex? Are you sure you don't mean prostitution? Procrastination? Prostate exam? Getting a fair trial in court most certainly involves prosecution: prosecution n. 1) in criminal law, the government attorney charging and trying the case against a person accused of a crime. 2) a common term for the government's side in a criminal case, as in "the prosecution will present five witnesses" or "the prosecution rests" (completed its case). (See: prosecute, prosecutor)
- hnha 13y ago
  full url is http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/germany-should-honour-its-debt-and-offer-nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-asylum-8722923.html http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/germany-should-h... please don't use url obfuscators on hn.
bryanlarsen 13y ago
He's probably hoping that Iceland offers him asylum. Their bill granting him asylum wasn't denied, it just wasn't allowed to be voted on. So perhaps there's still faint hope for asylum in Iceland.
gbog 13y ago
He should buy a fake identity and go somewhere else, I'm sure fake passport is easy to get in Russia.
- andreypopp 13y ago
  :-)
- rfctr 13y ago
  Yeah... about as easy as to meet a wild drunken bear with a balalaika on a Moscow street.
  - WildUtah 13y ago
    Wow, so you'd have to work pretty hard not to receive a fake passport, then.
  - vdaniuk 13y ago
    Nice strawman there, dude
rfctr 13y ago
May be Vatican.
- mkohlmyr 13y ago
  they only offer asylum to child molesters
pessimizer 13y ago
>can any one name one [...] perfect country No.

by alan_cx 13y ago

dotcoma 13y ago

Germany should, as explained here: http://ind.pn/12ix0rD http://ind.pn/12ix0rD But unfortunately it won't :-/

kwal0203 13y ago
Germany was in on the spying act itself. Hypocrites to suggest they have some type of moral superiority over the US.
- eli 13y ago
  Are there any countries that don't spy on people?
  - mafribe 13y ago
    All countries spy on their citizens. The real questions are twofold: (1) how reliable is the information that the political decision makers obtain from spying, and (2) how democratic and transparent are the spying operations, how much control do the citizens have over the spying operations. NSA-like spying is probably the most reliable in history, but how the information gets transformed on the way to decision makers, and what democratic control we have probably leaves a lot to be desired and must improve. Snowden is a hero because his actions have given us incentive and data to improve the world of secret services.
qznc 13y ago
He applied to Germany and was rejected due to "missing requirements". No official statement was given what requirements exactly were missing. Probably, because you have to be on german ground (or very near) to apply. The application itself is declared confidential due to privacy reasons. Essentially, our government does not want Snowden to enter Germany.
- mseebach 13y ago
  So, it's obvious that it's not politically convenient for Germany (or most other western countries) to grant Snowden asylum, even if they wanted to. But legally, he doesn't have a very clear-cut case: The 1951 United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees which is the legal framework for asylum, defines the criteria as having a well-founded fear of persecution because of one's race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership of a particular social group. The only category that might fit is "political opinion", but holding a certain political opinion is not a license to commit a crime (which, unambiguously, Snowden is guilty of), especially when laws against the exact same activity is on the books in the countries he's applying to. Has it not been for the much too heavy-handed treatment of Manning, he couldn't even claim fear of prosecution: getting a fair trial in a court of law isn't prosecution.
  - SimHacker 13y ago
    Maybe he has a prosecution complex? Are you sure you don't mean prostitution? Procrastination? Prostate exam? Getting a fair trial in court most certainly involves prosecution: prosecution n. 1) in criminal law, the government attorney charging and trying the case against a person accused of a crime. 2) a common term for the government's side in a criminal case, as in "the prosecution will present five witnesses" or "the prosecution rests" (completed its case). (See: prosecute, prosecutor)
hnha 13y ago
full url is http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/germany-should-honour-its-debt-and-offer-nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-asylum-8722923.html http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/germany-should-h... please don't use url obfuscators on hn.

bryanlarsen 13y ago

He's probably hoping that Iceland offers him asylum. Their bill granting him asylum wasn't denied, it just wasn't allowed to be voted on. So perhaps there's still faint hope for asylum in Iceland.

gbog 13y ago

He should buy a fake identity and go somewhere else, I'm sure fake passport is easy to get in Russia.

andreypopp 13y ago
:-)
rfctr 13y ago
Yeah... about as easy as to meet a wild drunken bear with a balalaika on a Moscow street.
- WildUtah 13y ago
  Wow, so you'd have to work pretty hard not to receive a fake passport, then.
- vdaniuk 13y ago
  Nice strawman there, dude

rfctr 13y ago

May be Vatican.

mkohlmyr 13y ago
they only offer asylum to child molesters

pessimizer 13y ago

>can any one name one [...] perfect country No.