9 ms·

Well I think this is more to do with Russia thumbing it's nose at the US rather than protecting an individual from tyranny. But fair play to Snowden, it's good

Well I think this is more to do with Russia thumbing it's nose at the US rather than protecting an individual from tyranny. But fair play to Snowden, it's good news for him. But If I were Snowden, I'd be quietly sneaking out of Russia very soon lest the political winds change and he suddenly finds he's a very valuable pawn in a very dangerous game that he can't win.

kwal0203 13y ago
He's already a pawn in a game he can't win. He will have to clear all of his actions with FSB from now on.
- clicks 13y ago
  That's an over-simplistic view of things and implies that Snowden is perforce the lesser fool. I think it's rather more the reality that Snowden has been quite wise in his planning: he is aware that he is putting Russia in a position where Russia will try its darndest to be on its best behavior in sustaining that "asylum-giving, human-rights protecting" image it has recently gotten.
  - kwal0203 13y ago
    You can't be serious? wise? You think he planned to be in Russia? Russia protecting human rights? OMFG
    - clicks 13y ago
      No, he probably did not plan on ending up in Russia, but he has been wise in dealing with the situation he was put in with the very limited number of options he had. That he is still alive, well, mentally sound, able to freely speak to journalists (and American politicians) at free will -- and finally now "free" to leave the airport is evidence that he's been wise in making decisions. > Russia protecting human rights? OMFG That is an irrelevant and uninformed statement with regards to Snowden's situation and his decision to seek asylum in Russia. It was very simply one of the few rational options to pursue in order for him to remain a 'free man', as has been made abundantly clear by now.
    - kaonashi 13y ago
      Almost as ridiculous as the US protecting human rights.
  - kwal0203 13y ago
    "able to freely speak to journalists (and American politicians) at free will" If you believe this is how it will be for Edward Snowden under the control of Putin and the FSB you are sadly mistaken.. or you are being highly disingenuous. "Russia will try its darndest to be on its best behavior in sustaining that "asylum-giving, human-rights protecting" image it has recently gotten. That was your statement man... once again, if you think Russia are an asylum-giving, human-rights protecting country you are simply a fool.
  - teleological 13y ago
    Russia has an "asylum-giving, human-rights protecting" image? Even if you were to believe that Russia is acting to protect Snowden out of anything but national self-interest -- does refusing to extradite Snowden cancel out Russia's multiplying authoritarian abuses? Pussy Riot? Navalny? Magnitsky? The "Gay Propaganda" bill? The notion that Russia is beholden to Snowden to protect its image is ludicrous, although given the grandiosity of some of Snowden's statements, I do not hesitate to consider that Snowden himself might believe it.
    - clicks 13y ago
      No, I meant in this limited context Russia has been given the whiteknight image. Hence my use of scare quotes. Sorry if I was unclear.
alan_cx 13y ago
Probably. But can any one name one trust-able perfect country that would give a Snowden type asylum purely on principle, rather than for political reasons? I'll be honest, Im struggling to think of one.
- dotcoma 13y ago
  Germany should, as explained here: http://ind.pn/12ix0rD http://ind.pn/12ix0rD But unfortunately it won't :-/
  - kwal0203 13y ago
    Germany was in on the spying act itself. Hypocrites to suggest they have some type of moral superiority over the US.
    - eli 13y ago
      Are there any countries that don't spy on people?
      - mafribe 13y ago
        All countries spy on their citizens. The real questions are twofold: (1) how reliable is the information that the political decision makers obtain from spying, and (2) how democratic and transparent are the spying operations, how much control do the citizens have over the spying operations. NSA-like spying is probably the most reliable in history, but how the information gets transformed on the way to decision makers, and what democratic control we have probably leaves a lot to be desired and must improve. Snowden is a hero because his actions have given us incentive and data to improve the world of secret services.
  - qznc 13y ago
    He applied to Germany and was rejected due to "missing requirements". No official statement was given what requirements exactly were missing. Probably, because you have to be on german ground (or very near) to apply. The application itself is declared confidential due to privacy reasons. Essentially, our government does not want Snowden to enter Germany.
clamprecht 13y ago
My high school history teacher taught us something that politicians know: "My enemy's enemy is my friend". I'm sure there's a concise Russian saying for this.
- IgorPartola 13y ago
  "My friend's friend is my friend" ironically enough.
- SimHacker 13y ago
  In Soviet Russia, my friend is my enemy's enemy.
celticninja 13y ago
to be fair sneaking out of russia is probably not that hard given the huge land borders of the country.
- madaxe 13y ago
  If you've ever been near a russian land border, you'd know sneaking ain't an option - they're still very much into their 30 foot razor wire fences, and mile wide minefields. AFAIK, the only borders which aren't demarked as such are those which ramble across incredibly inhospitable desert, which serves the same purpose as razor wire and mines.
  - rfctr 13y ago
    > 30 foot razor wire fences, and mile wide minefields. LOL OMFG! MILE WIDE !!! MINEFIELDS !!! May be the confusion is with USA-Mexico border? o_O
    - madaxe 13y ago
      No, I knew exactly where I was, each and every time I drove into Russia. Pretty hard to confuse with the USA.
  - DominikR 13y ago
    I'd suggest you look up Russia and the length of its border on Google Maps and then think again about the feasibility of razor wire fences and mile wide minefields.
    - madaxe 13y ago
      I'd suggest you go there and see with your own eyes? I'm not sure what your point is. Feasibility isn't really something the USSR ever factored in.
      - DominikR 13y ago
        Do you have any proof for your hilarious claims? In numerous Wikipedia articles about Russias border there was no mention of fences and minefields as current security measures, other than in some conflict zones like Georgia. Also, all that I see on Google Maps satellite images is farmland without any visible security on both sides of the border. (for example: https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d8021!2d60.640099!3d50.6614726!2m1!1e3&fid=7 https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d8021!2d...)
junto 13y ago
At the moment I can't think of a more politically stable country for Snowden to be in. Latin American countries are historically fickle when it comes to flip-flopping between pro and anti US governments. Russia seems to be a good choice. Much better than China anyway.
- olalonde 13y ago
  > Much better than China anyway. Why do you think Russia is a much better choice for him then China?
  - KennyCason 13y ago
    I would expect that China is much more interested in maintaining good relations with America than Russia is.
  - kyllo 13y ago
    China is fairly stable politically, but they practice more active censorship and have worse human rights violations compared to Russia today. They have strict visa regulations, a strict national ID system, and they definitely spy on people's e-mails and phone conversations. Skype had to release a special, wiretapped version specifically for China. They lack even a semblance of democracy, and protests are forbidden. Just seems like a very bad fit for Snowden. Russia is at least sort of trying to be a democracy.
    - olalonde 13y ago
      I mostly agree but in the end, both countries are a bad fit for Snowden with regards to his activism. Also, China doesn't really have strict visa regulations at all (for example, pretty much anyone can buy a one year visa within a few hours in Hong Kong, no questions asked). On the other hand, it is probably easier to apply for citizenship in Russia and the Russian passport is more convenient for travel. In any case, I don't think Snowden ever really had a choice between Russia and China.
      - 13y ago

kwal0203 13y ago

He's already a pawn in a game he can't win. He will have to clear all of his actions with FSB from now on.

clicks 13y ago
That's an over-simplistic view of things and implies that Snowden is perforce the lesser fool. I think it's rather more the reality that Snowden has been quite wise in his planning: he is aware that he is putting Russia in a position where Russia will try its darndest to be on its best behavior in sustaining that "asylum-giving, human-rights protecting" image it has recently gotten.
- kwal0203 13y ago
  You can't be serious? wise? You think he planned to be in Russia? Russia protecting human rights? OMFG
  - clicks 13y ago
    No, he probably did not plan on ending up in Russia, but he has been wise in dealing with the situation he was put in with the very limited number of options he had. That he is still alive, well, mentally sound, able to freely speak to journalists (and American politicians) at free will -- and finally now "free" to leave the airport is evidence that he's been wise in making decisions. > Russia protecting human rights? OMFG That is an irrelevant and uninformed statement with regards to Snowden's situation and his decision to seek asylum in Russia. It was very simply one of the few rational options to pursue in order for him to remain a 'free man', as has been made abundantly clear by now.
  - kaonashi 13y ago
    Almost as ridiculous as the US protecting human rights.
- kwal0203 13y ago
  "able to freely speak to journalists (and American politicians) at free will" If you believe this is how it will be for Edward Snowden under the control of Putin and the FSB you are sadly mistaken.. or you are being highly disingenuous. "Russia will try its darndest to be on its best behavior in sustaining that "asylum-giving, human-rights protecting" image it has recently gotten. That was your statement man... once again, if you think Russia are an asylum-giving, human-rights protecting country you are simply a fool.
- teleological 13y ago
  Russia has an "asylum-giving, human-rights protecting" image? Even if you were to believe that Russia is acting to protect Snowden out of anything but national self-interest -- does refusing to extradite Snowden cancel out Russia's multiplying authoritarian abuses? Pussy Riot? Navalny? Magnitsky? The "Gay Propaganda" bill? The notion that Russia is beholden to Snowden to protect its image is ludicrous, although given the grandiosity of some of Snowden's statements, I do not hesitate to consider that Snowden himself might believe it.
  - clicks 13y ago
    No, I meant in this limited context Russia has been given the whiteknight image. Hence my use of scare quotes. Sorry if I was unclear.

alan_cx 13y ago

Probably. But can any one name one trust-able perfect country that would give a Snowden type asylum purely on principle, rather than for political reasons? I'll be honest, Im struggling to think of one.

dotcoma 13y ago
Germany should, as explained here: http://ind.pn/12ix0rD http://ind.pn/12ix0rD But unfortunately it won't :-/
- kwal0203 13y ago
  Germany was in on the spying act itself. Hypocrites to suggest they have some type of moral superiority over the US.
  - eli 13y ago
    Are there any countries that don't spy on people?
    - mafribe 13y ago
      All countries spy on their citizens. The real questions are twofold: (1) how reliable is the information that the political decision makers obtain from spying, and (2) how democratic and transparent are the spying operations, how much control do the citizens have over the spying operations. NSA-like spying is probably the most reliable in history, but how the information gets transformed on the way to decision makers, and what democratic control we have probably leaves a lot to be desired and must improve. Snowden is a hero because his actions have given us incentive and data to improve the world of secret services.
- qznc 13y ago
  He applied to Germany and was rejected due to "missing requirements". No official statement was given what requirements exactly were missing. Probably, because you have to be on german ground (or very near) to apply. The application itself is declared confidential due to privacy reasons. Essentially, our government does not want Snowden to enter Germany.

clamprecht 13y ago

My high school history teacher taught us something that politicians know: "My enemy's enemy is my friend". I'm sure there's a concise Russian saying for this.

IgorPartola 13y ago
"My friend's friend is my friend" ironically enough.
SimHacker 13y ago
In Soviet Russia, my friend is my enemy's enemy.

celticninja 13y ago

to be fair sneaking out of russia is probably not that hard given the huge land borders of the country.

madaxe 13y ago
If you've ever been near a russian land border, you'd know sneaking ain't an option - they're still very much into their 30 foot razor wire fences, and mile wide minefields. AFAIK, the only borders which aren't demarked as such are those which ramble across incredibly inhospitable desert, which serves the same purpose as razor wire and mines.
- rfctr 13y ago
  > 30 foot razor wire fences, and mile wide minefields. LOL OMFG! MILE WIDE !!! MINEFIELDS !!! May be the confusion is with USA-Mexico border? o_O
  - madaxe 13y ago
    No, I knew exactly where I was, each and every time I drove into Russia. Pretty hard to confuse with the USA.
- DominikR 13y ago
  I'd suggest you look up Russia and the length of its border on Google Maps and then think again about the feasibility of razor wire fences and mile wide minefields.
  - madaxe 13y ago
    I'd suggest you go there and see with your own eyes? I'm not sure what your point is. Feasibility isn't really something the USSR ever factored in.
    - DominikR 13y ago
      Do you have any proof for your hilarious claims? In numerous Wikipedia articles about Russias border there was no mention of fences and minefields as current security measures, other than in some conflict zones like Georgia. Also, all that I see on Google Maps satellite images is farmland without any visible security on both sides of the border. (for example: https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d8021!2d60.640099!3d50.6614726!2m1!1e3&fid=7 https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d8021!2d...)

junto 13y ago

At the moment I can't think of a more politically stable country for Snowden to be in. Latin American countries are historically fickle when it comes to flip-flopping between pro and anti US governments. Russia seems to be a good choice. Much better than China anyway.

olalonde 13y ago
> Much better than China anyway. Why do you think Russia is a much better choice for him then China?
- KennyCason 13y ago
  I would expect that China is much more interested in maintaining good relations with America than Russia is.
- kyllo 13y ago
  China is fairly stable politically, but they practice more active censorship and have worse human rights violations compared to Russia today. They have strict visa regulations, a strict national ID system, and they definitely spy on people's e-mails and phone conversations. Skype had to release a special, wiretapped version specifically for China. They lack even a semblance of democracy, and protests are forbidden. Just seems like a very bad fit for Snowden. Russia is at least sort of trying to be a democracy.
  - olalonde 13y ago
    I mostly agree but in the end, both countries are a bad fit for Snowden with regards to his activism. Also, China doesn't really have strict visa regulations at all (for example, pretty much anyone can buy a one year visa within a few hours in Hong Kong, no questions asked). On the other hand, it is probably easier to apply for citizenship in Russia and the Russian passport is more convenient for travel. In any case, I don't think Snowden ever really had a choice between Russia and China.
    - 13y ago