5 ms·

NSA - The Price of Hypocrisy

117 points by spdy 13y ago

jcromartie 13y ago
Kind of a silly tangent, but: it looks like Keith Alexander is wearing a Casio F91W, which is infamous for being the watch of choice of terrorists, particularly Osama bin Laden and numerous Guantanamo detainees. It's also popular with hipsters and hackers. I wonder if it was some kind of dog whistle? Or the same wardrobe people that put him in an EFF shirt to make him appear "relevant" did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F91W#Claimed_use_in_terrorism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F91W#Claimed_use_in_terro...
- Shish2k 13y ago
  Kind of a shame that "using cheap, high-quality equipment" is now evidence of criminal activity. As if I wasn't inadvertently on enough government watch lists already :( (See also: encryption, tor; next up, using any OS that isn't certified NSA-backdoor-compatible?)
joseflavio 13y ago
"the word “cloud” in “cloud computing” is just a euphemism for “some dark bunker in Idaho or Utah.”" I always said that and I believe that the "cloud" is just some intermediary paradigm, in some time and hopefully soon, people will host all their data at home and will only upload it encrypted to on line vaults to have them backed up and redundant for accessing. For now, I am really looking forward for an Evernote / Dropbox hosted outside of USA/UK/etc to start.
- Xylakant 13y ago
  I do not think so. Hosting your data at home is significantly more complex than cloud hosting (dropbox, icloud) and will always be - bandwidth is the smallest of all issues. There's absolutely no gain if data is stored on shrink-wrapped boxes that are remotely administered by a provider because then, all data will just be collected at home. So you'd need a trustworthy and extremely simple and robust (open source?) solution that allows every, even the computer-illiterate persons to set up a storage at home. I don't see that coming soon.
  - joseflavio 13y ago
    I agree with you that today there is absolutely no way, but in the last 5 years the internet changed a lot. Several Europeans countries are subsidizing the optical fiber infrastructure, so the bandwidth will not be problem. To solve the complexity issue, I think the solution could be a of "home server" or "home box", I guess it will could be even provided by your ISP (each day these home boxes come with more capabilities).
    - Xylakant 13y ago
      I don't think that bandwidth is the problem. Technical knowledge is the problem. See, someone (AAPL) designs a beautiful box that does what you want (call it Time Capsule) and all of a sudden, all that changes is the attack vector: The NSA/BND/... does not require the cloud provider to hand over the data, they just require a data collection interface on the box. Or a sync protocol that leaks or a master key since they're sniffing all internet traffic anyways. All you're doing is playing a game of whack a mole. What's required is a fundamental change in how secret services are monitored and bound by law and that's not something technology can do.
      - pessimizer 13y ago
        Apple is clearly the wrong choice, then. Go with a vendor that allows people to own their own equipment, and not one that installs a data collection interface on it. >sync protocol that leaks Que? The sync protocol had better be open, or it's worthless.
      - Decade 13y ago
        Apple is not the problem. The (horribly proprietary) iCloud is just Apple's solution to the fundamental problem of people collecting data but not being able to manage it. The article calls out smart devices. I've fantasized about having smart devices of my own, but in my fantasies they answer to me and collect data into my systems. Which means I need to learn a bit of embedded programming and some electrical engineering to build my own, after I've learned how to set up my own servers. I don't see this as viable for normal consumers. Even I don't manage all of my own information. I switched to Gmail because I just can't keep up with spammers. I have a life.
- lnanek2 13y ago
  It has big meaning in business where it generally means the organization isn't going to run it's own servers. Or even own them if they aren't requiring a private cloud. Although amusingly, here in the medical sector, the cloud often still has to be in the same state for legal purposes.
- stephencanon 13y ago
  “outside the US/UK/etc” means “in a country with weaker constitutional protections against government search and seizure”, for the most part. Be careful what you wish for.
  - iandundas 13y ago
    As has been proved, the USA is not the pinnacle of these things (any longer?). I'd happily try my luck with a German Dropbox
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  My vision: a Federated model in which users self-host using something like FreedomBox (https://www.freedomboxfoundation.org/ https://www.freedomboxfoundation.org/). The hardware is small, cheap ($20 - $200, or more if you prefer) and low-power. And the truth is: having _any_ dedicated box means you're getting more hardware allocated to your use and data than most SAAS providers provision on a per-customer basis. With modest amounts of RAM and an SSD performance will top most cloud services. The software is self-configuring. One thing the Debian team has been working on for nearly two decades is how to take all the pain out of deploying systems, and while it's not perfect, it's really damned good. With a focus on "sane by default", there's no initial package selection. The "Federated" bit says that your data is replicated on other nodes, either of your specific choosing or based on an arbitrary selection. That can include encryption of non-public data. And there's a possible business model: set up self-hosted systems for individuals or businesses, or host small numbers of sites (it would take a lot of work for the feds to track down tens of thousands of providers rather than a handful of large players). Email, webhosting, file storage, email, messaging, social networking, on an open framework.
Uchikoma 13y ago
"It’s probably not a coincidence that LiveJournal, Russia’s favorite platform, suddenly had maintenance issues – and was thus unavailable for general use – at the very same time that a Russian court announced its verdict to the popular blogger-activist Alexei Navalny." This was news to me.
w_t_payne 13y ago
I am glad somebody else out there is interested in the debate that lies at the intersection of the surveillance state and the "internet of things".
betterunix 13y ago
"First of all, many Europeans are finally grasping, to their great dismay, that the word “cloud” in “cloud computing” is just a euphemism for “some dark bunker in Idaho or Utah.”" It is not as though there were no warnings: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...
blisterpeanuts 13y ago
I have to say, this whole NSA Snowden revelation has shaken a bunch of us out of our little fantasy bubble, and we have lost all faith in Google and other internet services providers to protect our private information. But the real catastrophe here is that these U.S. companies have suddenly and irrevocably lost the trust of the rest of the world, as the article rightly points out. Software is one of America's last bastions of competitiveness and our stupid government has managed to undermine even that. So long, Internet. It was fun while it lasted. I just hope there will still be a few good paying jobs left after the crash, maybe in the field of cryptographic communications; that seems like it's got a lot of potential in our post-privacy era.
- SkyMarshal 13y ago
  Yup, next time the ITU tries to assert control over some aspect of the Internet, it's going to be a lot more difficult to prevent because of this.
- snitko 13y ago
  Why do you blame companies? If you were the CEO of Google and a government official came to you with a request for a backdoor and a solid promise to make life real hard for you if you refuse to cooperate, what would you do?
  - avoutthere 13y ago
    I like to think that I would react as did Todd Beamer and the other passengers of Flight 93. Sometimes circumstances call for heroic action at the risk of one's self.
    - hga 13y ago
      Not that relevant an analogy: Beamer and company knew it was very likely, whatever they did or didn't do, that they were going to die within a few hours. They also knew they could likely save a lot of lives by acting. It is not immediately clear the stakes are that high, and a counterargument with some validity is that a failure to cooperate will cost a lot of lives from future mass causality terrorist actions. And the penalty is squalid, e.g. see the example of Federal prisoner Joseph Nacchio, former CEO of Qwest. Note the truth behind his conviction doesn't matter a long as there is enough solid suspicion.

117 points by spdy 13y ago

Kind of a silly tangent, but: it looks like Keith Alexander is wearing a Casio F91W, which is infamous for being the watch of choice of terrorists, particularly Osama bin Laden and numerous Guantanamo detainees. It's also popular with hipsters and hackers. I wonder if it was some kind of dog whistle? Or the same wardrobe people that put him in an EFF shirt to make him appear "relevant" did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F91W#Claimed_use_in_terrorism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F91W#Claimed_use_in_terro...

Shish2k 13y ago
Kind of a shame that "using cheap, high-quality equipment" is now evidence of criminal activity. As if I wasn't inadvertently on enough government watch lists already :( (See also: encryption, tor; next up, using any OS that isn't certified NSA-backdoor-compatible?)

joseflavio 13y ago

"the word “cloud” in “cloud computing” is just a euphemism for “some dark bunker in Idaho or Utah.”" I always said that and I believe that the "cloud" is just some intermediary paradigm, in some time and hopefully soon, people will host all their data at home and will only upload it encrypted to on line vaults to have them backed up and redundant for accessing. For now, I am really looking forward for an Evernote / Dropbox hosted outside of USA/UK/etc to start.

Xylakant 13y ago
I do not think so. Hosting your data at home is significantly more complex than cloud hosting (dropbox, icloud) and will always be - bandwidth is the smallest of all issues. There's absolutely no gain if data is stored on shrink-wrapped boxes that are remotely administered by a provider because then, all data will just be collected at home. So you'd need a trustworthy and extremely simple and robust (open source?) solution that allows every, even the computer-illiterate persons to set up a storage at home. I don't see that coming soon.
- joseflavio 13y ago
  I agree with you that today there is absolutely no way, but in the last 5 years the internet changed a lot. Several Europeans countries are subsidizing the optical fiber infrastructure, so the bandwidth will not be problem. To solve the complexity issue, I think the solution could be a of "home server" or "home box", I guess it will could be even provided by your ISP (each day these home boxes come with more capabilities).
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    I don't think that bandwidth is the problem. Technical knowledge is the problem. See, someone (AAPL) designs a beautiful box that does what you want (call it Time Capsule) and all of a sudden, all that changes is the attack vector: The NSA/BND/... does not require the cloud provider to hand over the data, they just require a data collection interface on the box. Or a sync protocol that leaks or a master key since they're sniffing all internet traffic anyways. All you're doing is playing a game of whack a mole. What's required is a fundamental change in how secret services are monitored and bound by law and that's not something technology can do.
    - pessimizer 13y ago
      Apple is clearly the wrong choice, then. Go with a vendor that allows people to own their own equipment, and not one that installs a data collection interface on it. >sync protocol that leaks Que? The sync protocol had better be open, or it's worthless.
    - Decade 13y ago
      Apple is not the problem. The (horribly proprietary) iCloud is just Apple's solution to the fundamental problem of people collecting data but not being able to manage it. The article calls out smart devices. I've fantasized about having smart devices of my own, but in my fantasies they answer to me and collect data into my systems. Which means I need to learn a bit of embedded programming and some electrical engineering to build my own, after I've learned how to set up my own servers. I don't see this as viable for normal consumers. Even I don't manage all of my own information. I switched to Gmail because I just can't keep up with spammers. I have a life.
lnanek2 13y ago
It has big meaning in business where it generally means the organization isn't going to run it's own servers. Or even own them if they aren't requiring a private cloud. Although amusingly, here in the medical sector, the cloud often still has to be in the same state for legal purposes.
stephencanon 13y ago
“outside the US/UK/etc” means “in a country with weaker constitutional protections against government search and seizure”, for the most part. Be careful what you wish for.
- iandundas 13y ago
  As has been proved, the USA is not the pinnacle of these things (any longer?). I'd happily try my luck with a German Dropbox
dredmorbius 13y ago
My vision: a Federated model in which users self-host using something like FreedomBox (https://www.freedomboxfoundation.org/ https://www.freedomboxfoundation.org/). The hardware is small, cheap ($20 - $200, or more if you prefer) and low-power. And the truth is: having _any_ dedicated box means you're getting more hardware allocated to your use and data than most SAAS providers provision on a per-customer basis. With modest amounts of RAM and an SSD performance will top most cloud services. The software is self-configuring. One thing the Debian team has been working on for nearly two decades is how to take all the pain out of deploying systems, and while it's not perfect, it's really damned good. With a focus on "sane by default", there's no initial package selection. The "Federated" bit says that your data is replicated on other nodes, either of your specific choosing or based on an arbitrary selection. That can include encryption of non-public data. And there's a possible business model: set up self-hosted systems for individuals or businesses, or host small numbers of sites (it would take a lot of work for the feds to track down tens of thousands of providers rather than a handful of large players). Email, webhosting, file storage, email, messaging, social networking, on an open framework.

Uchikoma 13y ago

"It’s probably not a coincidence that LiveJournal, Russia’s favorite platform, suddenly had maintenance issues – and was thus unavailable for general use – at the very same time that a Russian court announced its verdict to the popular blogger-activist Alexei Navalny." This was news to me.

w_t_payne 13y ago

I am glad somebody else out there is interested in the debate that lies at the intersection of the surveillance state and the "internet of things".

betterunix 13y ago

"First of all, many Europeans are finally grasping, to their great dismay, that the word “cloud” in “cloud computing” is just a euphemism for “some dark bunker in Idaho or Utah.”" It is not as though there were no warnings: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

blisterpeanuts 13y ago

I have to say, this whole NSA Snowden revelation has shaken a bunch of us out of our little fantasy bubble, and we have lost all faith in Google and other internet services providers to protect our private information. But the real catastrophe here is that these U.S. companies have suddenly and irrevocably lost the trust of the rest of the world, as the article rightly points out. Software is one of America's last bastions of competitiveness and our stupid government has managed to undermine even that. So long, Internet. It was fun while it lasted. I just hope there will still be a few good paying jobs left after the crash, maybe in the field of cryptographic communications; that seems like it's got a lot of potential in our post-privacy era.

SkyMarshal 13y ago
Yup, next time the ITU tries to assert control over some aspect of the Internet, it's going to be a lot more difficult to prevent because of this.
snitko 13y ago
Why do you blame companies? If you were the CEO of Google and a government official came to you with a request for a backdoor and a solid promise to make life real hard for you if you refuse to cooperate, what would you do?
- avoutthere 13y ago
  I like to think that I would react as did Todd Beamer and the other passengers of Flight 93. Sometimes circumstances call for heroic action at the risk of one's self.
  - hga 13y ago
    Not that relevant an analogy: Beamer and company knew it was very likely, whatever they did or didn't do, that they were going to die within a few hours. They also knew they could likely save a lot of lives by acting. It is not immediately clear the stakes are that high, and a counterargument with some validity is that a failure to cooperate will cost a lot of lives from future mass causality terrorist actions. And the penalty is squalid, e.g. see the example of Federal prisoner Joseph Nacchio, former CEO of Qwest. Note the truth behind his conviction doesn't matter a long as there is enough solid suspicion.