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Its not just technical, is all over government. Education ministers usually have no grounding in education, health ministers usually have no grounding in health

by alan_cx 13y ago

Its not just technical, is all over government. Education ministers usually have no grounding in education, health ministers usually have no grounding in health, armed forces ministers usually have never serves, home secretaries usually have no grounding in law enforcement, and so on. All they know is what their supporters think and they apply that to garner votes. At best, such people only know how to manipulate parliament. This is democracy......

Luc 13y ago
Government ministers don't even need to be elected MPs. For a UK example: Peter Mandelson in 2008. It's the parties who decide who becomes minister, and as such they _could_ pick and choose domain experts, if they wished.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  Well, currently we have this Tory media adviser, or what ever he is supposed to be, who is said to have influenced this current government in to not blanking cigarette packets as he is connected to a tobacco company. Dunno why you picked an old example when we have a current one, which has more of an obvious self serving connection. Mandelson can be argued to have been "advising" from principle. That said, I dont see how any one can be sure an adviser is advising and not setting policy. And if they don't have influence, there is no point having them, but then people would argue that ministers should have advice from advisers, especially as most of them have no grounding what so ever in the department they are supposed to be running.
  - Luc 13y ago
    > Dunno why you picked an old example when we have a current one Sorry, I used to live in the UK but now live in Belgium, so my knowledge of UK politics is somewhat outdated. In Belgium we had a new minister of finance appointed in March, who as far as I know has never even been up for election for anything: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koen_Geens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koen_Geens
    - toyg 13y ago
      > In Belgium we had a new minister of finance appointed in March, who as far as I know has never even been up for election Amateurs :) Italy has had a wholly-unelected Prime Minister for two years: he was nominated Life Senator by the President and sworn in as PM a day later. In every other parliamentary democracy, this would have been called a coup d'état, but Italy works more like South-American banana republics. And the best thing is, he was drafted exactly on the basis of domain knowledge (he was a banker and euro-bureaucrat) for a country still in the grip of wide-scale economic crisis, and all his ministers were appointed on the same basis: lots of academics, high-profile intellectuals, bankers and industrialists. Results were underwhelming to say the least, and last Spring voters basically disposed of this group in a general election. But the President all but re-elected himself (to another 7-year term, which is unprecedented) and again hand-picked a PM who's basically forced to follow the same political platform of his "golpist" predecessor. So yeah, domain knowledge won't save your ass. Political problems are always political, not technical, and require political solutions, i.e. people shouting that this will not do, do that instead.
  - desas 13y ago
    While your points are good, The adviser isn't part of government, Mandelson was. There is an important difference, a minister is a much more powerful position.
  - gadders 13y ago
    I believe Tony Blair performed a similar u-turn in regards to Formula 1 tobacco sponsorship shortly after a donation to Labour Party funds from Bernie Ecclestone. Also, Peter Mandelson committed fraud on his mortgage application and had to resign from cabinet at least twice.
  - nicholassmith 13y ago
    `"Mandelson can be argued to have been "advising" from principle."` Aside from when media folk kept inviting him to swanky dinners. But aside from that I agree, advisers advise on policy which leads to actual policy decisions, but advisers should have at least some background otherwise it's just dangerous.

by alan_cx 13y ago

Luc 13y ago

Government ministers don't even need to be elected MPs. For a UK example: Peter Mandelson in 2008. It's the parties who decide who becomes minister, and as such they _could_ pick and choose domain experts, if they wished.

alan_cx 13y ago
Well, currently we have this Tory media adviser, or what ever he is supposed to be, who is said to have influenced this current government in to not blanking cigarette packets as he is connected to a tobacco company. Dunno why you picked an old example when we have a current one, which has more of an obvious self serving connection. Mandelson can be argued to have been "advising" from principle. That said, I dont see how any one can be sure an adviser is advising and not setting policy. And if they don't have influence, there is no point having them, but then people would argue that ministers should have advice from advisers, especially as most of them have no grounding what so ever in the department they are supposed to be running.
- Luc 13y ago
  > Dunno why you picked an old example when we have a current one Sorry, I used to live in the UK but now live in Belgium, so my knowledge of UK politics is somewhat outdated. In Belgium we had a new minister of finance appointed in March, who as far as I know has never even been up for election for anything: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koen_Geens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koen_Geens
  - toyg 13y ago
    > In Belgium we had a new minister of finance appointed in March, who as far as I know has never even been up for election Amateurs :) Italy has had a wholly-unelected Prime Minister for two years: he was nominated Life Senator by the President and sworn in as PM a day later. In every other parliamentary democracy, this would have been called a coup d'état, but Italy works more like South-American banana republics. And the best thing is, he was drafted exactly on the basis of domain knowledge (he was a banker and euro-bureaucrat) for a country still in the grip of wide-scale economic crisis, and all his ministers were appointed on the same basis: lots of academics, high-profile intellectuals, bankers and industrialists. Results were underwhelming to say the least, and last Spring voters basically disposed of this group in a general election. But the President all but re-elected himself (to another 7-year term, which is unprecedented) and again hand-picked a PM who's basically forced to follow the same political platform of his "golpist" predecessor. So yeah, domain knowledge won't save your ass. Political problems are always political, not technical, and require political solutions, i.e. people shouting that this will not do, do that instead.
- desas 13y ago
  While your points are good, The adviser isn't part of government, Mandelson was. There is an important difference, a minister is a much more powerful position.
- gadders 13y ago
  I believe Tony Blair performed a similar u-turn in regards to Formula 1 tobacco sponsorship shortly after a donation to Labour Party funds from Bernie Ecclestone. Also, Peter Mandelson committed fraud on his mortgage application and had to resign from cabinet at least twice.
- nicholassmith 13y ago
  `"Mandelson can be argued to have been "advising" from principle."` Aside from when media folk kept inviting him to swanky dinners. But aside from that I agree, advisers advise on policy which leads to actual policy decisions, but advisers should have at least some background otherwise it's just dangerous.