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Does anyone know of a place where a person could get brief advice about suitability of various fonts? Something like, "A humanist font is characterized by .. a

Does anyone know of a place where a person could get brief advice about suitability of various fonts? Something like, "A humanist font is characterized by .. and is most natural in a less-staid document, such as a work of fiction" (Please don't write me that it is wrong; I made that up as an example of the kind of thing a type-ignorant person like me might find useful.) I don't expect to become a brilliant designer, I am only hoping to avoid what an expert would regard as ghastly errors, or perhaps better said, to help me make some reasonable choices.

grey-area 13y ago
Typography is about more than just the choice of font, and in some ways the choice of fonts is less important than how you employ the fonts you do choose, how you combine them and which weights you choose to use where. I think reading books like this one would be a great first step. Some of the advice is a little opinionated, but most of it is sound, it reminds me of Strunk & White in that way. An example of misuse of typography; he advises you not to use various forms of emphasis at the same time (bold, italic and underline all at once), and to use a regular and limited progression of headings to indicate importance and hierarchy. I have seen clients attempting to design making all these mistakes without considering the result of those choices and ending up with an unsatisfactory result which fails in difficult to quantify ways. They sense it isn't quite right, but don't pin the blame in the right place (on the lack of coherence). The good news is you can learn by trying, none of this is particularly hard, it's like learning to write well - it comes with practice, really looking at what others do, and listening to criticism when it appears justified. Some of this is subjective of course, and dependent on the culture and sensibilities of the reader, so it's something you're going to acquire by osmosis rather than by reading a brief guide I'm afraid. For some subjects, there is no TL;DR.
- jimhefferon 13y ago
  Forgive me, I cannot believe that even the most basic choices take a lifetime of training, reflection, and listening to criticism. For instance, in the linked-to document he advises not to use Papyrus in your PhD thesis. That advice doesn't take a lifetime. Hearing that advice isn't going to make me a threat to professional designers (who I work with and admire tremendously), but some very basic rules of thumb are all I am looking for.
  - grey-area 13y ago
    Forgive me, I cannot believe that even the most basic choices take a lifetime of training, reflection, and listening to criticism. Sorry if it came across that way, that wasn't the intended message at all. There are plenty of little pieces of advice in this book, a couple of which I highlighted in my reply - those I'd indicate are good rules to live by if you don't want to have to dig deeper. They don't answer your question directly, because choosing a font is only one choice amongst many important choices you make in presenting information, and probably middling in importance. So don't only ask that question, and note that it's only one chapter in this book - there are lots of little decisions which go into typography which I'd learn first. To say that isn't to imply that it takes a lifetime, or that no-one should learn, or that non-designers somehow threaten designers (!), just that it's a complex topic which rewards study. I'd absolutely encourage you to learn a little about typography, designer or not, it's a fascinating subject, but like most subjects rules of thumb vary depending on who you ask, and it's hard to condense it into just a few rules (though this book is one such attempt). Here's some refs on typography: Just My Type - a fun introduction to the subject for the layperson Counterpunch by Fred Smeijers - perhaps a bit dry, but I found it engaging, a history of type The Elements of Typographic Style - perhaps a bit dry, but informative Those books go into detail about different types of fonts and their meaning (which is tied up in their origins), but also all the other little things that dictate the form of our thoughts on the page. If you want a more superficial guide, then I'd simply say just pick one mainstream sans and one serif, and you won't go too far wrong in your font choice. You're unlikely to find a more useful summary of where to use which fonts without lots more detail, because the right answer is it depends, and there are other more important choices you make when styling text.
- ams6110 13y ago
  I have seen clients attempting to design making all these mistakes without considering the result of those choices and ending up with an unsatisfactory result which fails in difficult to quantify ways. I am certainly not a typography or design expert, but I know these basics. And the comment about clients is right on. I have upon several occasions set up a CMS for a client with (to me) considered and conservative typographic choices, only to have the client start adding their own content, and use not only multiple forms of emphasis but also tossing in completely different fonts as well as colors. Nothing like a bold, underlined, italic, lime green block of text in a different font to completely destroy the look you've created.
dcuthbertson 13y ago
I am not a designer and I'm not sure about how to choose fonts for any particular usage, but I've enjoyed a little book by Robin Williams, "The Non-Designer's Design Book: Design and Typographic Principles for the Visual Novice". The author lays out four basic principles: Contrast, Repetition, Alignment and Proximity (CRAP - I love it; it's very memorable). The idea is that if you follow these principles, regardless of the types/fonts you choose, you'll have a better looking, easier to read document.
tptacek 13y ago
You're fine. It's not really the case that a humanist sans is only appropriate for some contexts and a geometric sans for others. It's a matter of taste. The font distinction you really care about is the one between display fonts and text fonts. Put simply, text fonts are the ones designed for setting lots of text, and, to keep things simple for yourself, you should constrain yourself to those fonts. Most every place that will sell you fonts will have a category or tag somewhere that will tell you what the text fonts are (they're easy to identify: they're the ones that look boring compared to Lobster and whatnot).
- gknoy 13y ago
  How does one develop good taste? How do you even know if you don't have it?
jschulenklopper 13y ago
The book "Design for Hackers" might be your choice. Next to other design-related advise (with explanations of the underlying reasons), it contains advise on font selection. Actually, if you go to the web page for the book, http://designforhackers.com/book/ http://designforhackers.com/book/ you can get a free PDF cheat sheet for simplifying your font choices.

grey-area 13y ago

Typography is about more than just the choice of font, and in some ways the choice of fonts is less important than how you employ the fonts you do choose, how you combine them and which weights you choose to use where. I think reading books like this one would be a great first step. Some of the advice is a little opinionated, but most of it is sound, it reminds me of Strunk & White in that way. An example of misuse of typography; he advises you not to use various forms of emphasis at the same time (bold, italic and underline all at once), and to use a regular and limited progression of headings to indicate importance and hierarchy. I have seen clients attempting to design making all these mistakes without considering the result of those choices and ending up with an unsatisfactory result which fails in difficult to quantify ways. They sense it isn't quite right, but don't pin the blame in the right place (on the lack of coherence). The good news is you can learn by trying, none of this is particularly hard, it's like learning to write well - it comes with practice, really looking at what others do, and listening to criticism when it appears justified. Some of this is subjective of course, and dependent on the culture and sensibilities of the reader, so it's something you're going to acquire by osmosis rather than by reading a brief guide I'm afraid. For some subjects, there is no TL;DR.

jimhefferon 13y ago
Forgive me, I cannot believe that even the most basic choices take a lifetime of training, reflection, and listening to criticism. For instance, in the linked-to document he advises not to use Papyrus in your PhD thesis. That advice doesn't take a lifetime. Hearing that advice isn't going to make me a threat to professional designers (who I work with and admire tremendously), but some very basic rules of thumb are all I am looking for.
- grey-area 13y ago
  Forgive me, I cannot believe that even the most basic choices take a lifetime of training, reflection, and listening to criticism. Sorry if it came across that way, that wasn't the intended message at all. There are plenty of little pieces of advice in this book, a couple of which I highlighted in my reply - those I'd indicate are good rules to live by if you don't want to have to dig deeper. They don't answer your question directly, because choosing a font is only one choice amongst many important choices you make in presenting information, and probably middling in importance. So don't only ask that question, and note that it's only one chapter in this book - there are lots of little decisions which go into typography which I'd learn first. To say that isn't to imply that it takes a lifetime, or that no-one should learn, or that non-designers somehow threaten designers (!), just that it's a complex topic which rewards study. I'd absolutely encourage you to learn a little about typography, designer or not, it's a fascinating subject, but like most subjects rules of thumb vary depending on who you ask, and it's hard to condense it into just a few rules (though this book is one such attempt). Here's some refs on typography: Just My Type - a fun introduction to the subject for the layperson Counterpunch by Fred Smeijers - perhaps a bit dry, but I found it engaging, a history of type The Elements of Typographic Style - perhaps a bit dry, but informative Those books go into detail about different types of fonts and their meaning (which is tied up in their origins), but also all the other little things that dictate the form of our thoughts on the page. If you want a more superficial guide, then I'd simply say just pick one mainstream sans and one serif, and you won't go too far wrong in your font choice. You're unlikely to find a more useful summary of where to use which fonts without lots more detail, because the right answer is it depends, and there are other more important choices you make when styling text.
ams6110 13y ago
I have seen clients attempting to design making all these mistakes without considering the result of those choices and ending up with an unsatisfactory result which fails in difficult to quantify ways. I am certainly not a typography or design expert, but I know these basics. And the comment about clients is right on. I have upon several occasions set up a CMS for a client with (to me) considered and conservative typographic choices, only to have the client start adding their own content, and use not only multiple forms of emphasis but also tossing in completely different fonts as well as colors. Nothing like a bold, underlined, italic, lime green block of text in a different font to completely destroy the look you've created.

dcuthbertson 13y ago

I am not a designer and I'm not sure about how to choose fonts for any particular usage, but I've enjoyed a little book by Robin Williams, "The Non-Designer's Design Book: Design and Typographic Principles for the Visual Novice". The author lays out four basic principles: Contrast, Repetition, Alignment and Proximity (CRAP - I love it; it's very memorable). The idea is that if you follow these principles, regardless of the types/fonts you choose, you'll have a better looking, easier to read document.

tptacek 13y ago

You're fine. It's not really the case that a humanist sans is only appropriate for some contexts and a geometric sans for others. It's a matter of taste. The font distinction you really care about is the one between display fonts and text fonts. Put simply, text fonts are the ones designed for setting lots of text, and, to keep things simple for yourself, you should constrain yourself to those fonts. Most every place that will sell you fonts will have a category or tag somewhere that will tell you what the text fonts are (they're easy to identify: they're the ones that look boring compared to Lobster and whatnot).

gknoy 13y ago
How does one develop good taste? How do you even know if you don't have it?

jschulenklopper 13y ago

The book "Design for Hackers" might be your choice. Next to other design-related advise (with explanations of the underlying reasons), it contains advise on font selection. Actually, if you go to the web page for the book, http://designforhackers.com/book/ http://designforhackers.com/book/ you can get a free PDF cheat sheet for simplifying your font choices.