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It's funny how a job like this fits with the cultural idea of 'the dignity of work.' The politicians and Amazon describe the human-robot job in positive terms,

It's funny how a job like this fits with the cultural idea of 'the dignity of work.' The politicians and Amazon describe the human-robot job in positive terms, like they're helping the community. But the real way jobs help people is by providing them with enough resources to improve their situation, and gain control of their lives. Working in an Amazon factory doesn't do that. First, after hustling for 15 miles a shift making minimum wage, you aren't going to be able to return to your shelter and work on a skill or education. You'd have to eat and sleep and recover. Second, the path of distinction and promotion that would exist in another career doesn't exist. The best way to do your job has been determined by a computer, and the only distinction you can achieve is 'accuracy as a pac-man.' I think accurate language about a job like this would only describe it as allowing people to live, period. Life maintaining, not life-improving. It's a sweatshop for the first world, and only a blessing if you weren't going to be able to eat or find shelter otherwise.

deleted 13y ago
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yummyfajitas 13y ago
First, after hustling for 15 miles a shift making minimum wage, you aren't going to be able to return to your shelter and work on a skill or education. You'd have to eat and sleep and recover. Walking for 7-15 miles, spread over an 8 hour day, is not actually all that strenuous. It's worse than an office job, but it's pretty light exercise. In terms of calories burned, it's about double a typical boxing workout (roughly 1000 cals for boxing, 2000 for walking 16 miles@2mph), which is something I do every morning before going to an office job. In terms of intensity it's about 4x less (2x the work / 8x the time). So figure 8 hours/day at work, another hour commuting, 8 hours sleeping, that's 7 hours/day to do whatever you want. (Hint: skip the TV, learn a skill.)
- BashiBazouk 13y ago
  Well, keep in mind the recovery is less the total calories burned and more the act of putting your entire body weight on the soles of your feet for eight hours on cement floors in crappy shoes. Also, four to five hours of walking is not "pretty light exercise". It's a decent workout. Average speed for walking is around 3mph not 2, and if pressed by electronic monitoring and management, a bit faster than that. Probably one of the best forms of exercise out there, but rarely done for most people don't have the time. Low intensity workouts over long periods of time have a different recovery than high intensity workouts over a short time. The direct calorie comparisons don't really do it justice...
  - coolnow 13y ago
    As someone who works at a relatively large warehouse for a billion pound UK retailer, i can attest to the "walking is not pretty light exercise". Sure, if you walked for leisure, it'd be nothing, but when you have such high targets you need to reach and management always peering around corners and always ending their conversations with "Okay now, hurry up you're falling behind", it makes the experience way more difficult. Also, the breaks are set out in a way that makes life absolute hell (for me, anyway). On Saturday, we have 10-15 minutes after 2 hours. Then 2 hours after that, we have a 45 minute unpaid lunch. Then 2 hours after that, we have a 20 minute break. That day goes by so fast and without any problems. On Sundays, we have a 15 minute break less than an hour after our shift starts. After 2 hours, we have 45 minute unpaid lunch. 2 hours after that, we have our last break. Then we have a solid block of 3.5 hours without any rest. It typically takes me a full day of resting my feet to feel better because i'm not the lightest person, and being on my feet for so long especially without rest really makes a big big difference when comparing Sat and Sun. Yes, i have made it known to senior management that this break arrangement is bizarre for Sundays (it's because we work 12pm - 8pm on Sat but on Sunday, it's 2pm - 10pm so everything shifted forward 2 hours apart from the breaks, which have to accommodate to permanent staff who still work 12pm - 8pm on Sunday). They just tell em they're working on it. Not a lot of people listen to agency workers there, seeing as though we hardly last 2 or 3 months, but i've been working for almost a year now and still i've not got half the attention that's given to permanents. Has it got to do with unions or something?
potatolicious 13y ago
I've worked a job before that involved a lot of walking (fittest I've ever been, sadly), I probably came close to the 15 miles-a-day bar. It's really not that bad, assuming the environment isn't a grueling hellhole. Which Amazon warehouses reportedly are. Lots of reports of lack of air conditioning and unreasonably high temperatures. Walking 15 miles a day in a reasonably cooled warehouse is a piece of cake. 15 miles a day in a burning hot warehouse with high humidity and little fresh air... that's life-threatening. The larger concern I have is the commute. The sort of people taking these jobs are disproportionately likely to rely on public transit, and disproportionately likely to live far from their jobs. When I worked that factory job my commute was an hour each way - and that was pretty good. When it comes to improving one's lot in life the poor have everything stacked against them, and a reasonable commute is a major component. Nothing like working 8 hours in a heavily manual labor job, and then watch another 4 hours melt away as you wait for shittastic public transit to go back to your home in the middle of nowhere.
- cpeterso 13y ago
  Why does Amazon let their warehouses get so hot? There are news stories about Amazon parking ambulances outside warehouses on hot days. Instead of reducing the time to take heat exhausted workers to the hospital, why not prevent the problem in the first place? http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2017901782_amazonwarehouse04.html http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2017901782_a...
  - TeMPOraL 13y ago
    Probably because properly air-conditioning huge spaces (that are weather-protected by design; e.g. you can't just keep roof open) eats up tons of electricity.
leef 13y ago
That is not true. Success in a job is not always defined by thinking outside the box and being creative. Often it is much simpler - show up to work on time, produce, add value as depicted in your job description. The people that do these things are the people at get the full time job at Amazon, become shift supervisors, etc. I have worked with people who started out at Amazon on the floor and are now high level managers of warehouses and software teams. I've been to a couple of the Amazon warehouses in the US and it's hardly a sweatshop. You work a normal shift, you get a lunch break, at least minimum wage, etc. It is certainly a job far removed from what I am used to now as a software developer. It was more reminiscent of my time in the Navy but still not a bad job to have and an opportunity for those who take advantage of it.
- x0x0 13y ago
  yeah, with ambulances staged right outside when people keel over from heat stroke [1] So many ambulances responded to medical assistance calls at the warehouse during a heat wave in May, the paper said, that the retailer paid Cetronia Ambulance Corps to have paramedics and ambulances stationed outside the warehouse during several days of excess heat over the summer. About 15 people were taken to hospitals, while 20 or 30 more were treated right there, the ambulance chief told The Call. so just like disney, really [1] http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-very-hot-warehouse/?_r=0 http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-very...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

yummyfajitas 13y ago

First, after hustling for 15 miles a shift making minimum wage, you aren't going to be able to return to your shelter and work on a skill or education. You'd have to eat and sleep and recover. Walking for 7-15 miles, spread over an 8 hour day, is not actually all that strenuous. It's worse than an office job, but it's pretty light exercise. In terms of calories burned, it's about double a typical boxing workout (roughly 1000 cals for boxing, 2000 for walking 16 miles@2mph), which is something I do every morning before going to an office job. In terms of intensity it's about 4x less (2x the work / 8x the time). So figure 8 hours/day at work, another hour commuting, 8 hours sleeping, that's 7 hours/day to do whatever you want. (Hint: skip the TV, learn a skill.)

BashiBazouk 13y ago
Well, keep in mind the recovery is less the total calories burned and more the act of putting your entire body weight on the soles of your feet for eight hours on cement floors in crappy shoes. Also, four to five hours of walking is not "pretty light exercise". It's a decent workout. Average speed for walking is around 3mph not 2, and if pressed by electronic monitoring and management, a bit faster than that. Probably one of the best forms of exercise out there, but rarely done for most people don't have the time. Low intensity workouts over long periods of time have a different recovery than high intensity workouts over a short time. The direct calorie comparisons don't really do it justice...
- coolnow 13y ago
  As someone who works at a relatively large warehouse for a billion pound UK retailer, i can attest to the "walking is not pretty light exercise". Sure, if you walked for leisure, it'd be nothing, but when you have such high targets you need to reach and management always peering around corners and always ending their conversations with "Okay now, hurry up you're falling behind", it makes the experience way more difficult. Also, the breaks are set out in a way that makes life absolute hell (for me, anyway). On Saturday, we have 10-15 minutes after 2 hours. Then 2 hours after that, we have a 45 minute unpaid lunch. Then 2 hours after that, we have a 20 minute break. That day goes by so fast and without any problems. On Sundays, we have a 15 minute break less than an hour after our shift starts. After 2 hours, we have 45 minute unpaid lunch. 2 hours after that, we have our last break. Then we have a solid block of 3.5 hours without any rest. It typically takes me a full day of resting my feet to feel better because i'm not the lightest person, and being on my feet for so long especially without rest really makes a big big difference when comparing Sat and Sun. Yes, i have made it known to senior management that this break arrangement is bizarre for Sundays (it's because we work 12pm - 8pm on Sat but on Sunday, it's 2pm - 10pm so everything shifted forward 2 hours apart from the breaks, which have to accommodate to permanent staff who still work 12pm - 8pm on Sunday). They just tell em they're working on it. Not a lot of people listen to agency workers there, seeing as though we hardly last 2 or 3 months, but i've been working for almost a year now and still i've not got half the attention that's given to permanents. Has it got to do with unions or something?

potatolicious 13y ago

I've worked a job before that involved a lot of walking (fittest I've ever been, sadly), I probably came close to the 15 miles-a-day bar. It's really not that bad, assuming the environment isn't a grueling hellhole. Which Amazon warehouses reportedly are. Lots of reports of lack of air conditioning and unreasonably high temperatures. Walking 15 miles a day in a reasonably cooled warehouse is a piece of cake. 15 miles a day in a burning hot warehouse with high humidity and little fresh air... that's life-threatening. The larger concern I have is the commute. The sort of people taking these jobs are disproportionately likely to rely on public transit, and disproportionately likely to live far from their jobs. When I worked that factory job my commute was an hour each way - and that was pretty good. When it comes to improving one's lot in life the poor have everything stacked against them, and a reasonable commute is a major component. Nothing like working 8 hours in a heavily manual labor job, and then watch another 4 hours melt away as you wait for shittastic public transit to go back to your home in the middle of nowhere.

cpeterso 13y ago
Why does Amazon let their warehouses get so hot? There are news stories about Amazon parking ambulances outside warehouses on hot days. Instead of reducing the time to take heat exhausted workers to the hospital, why not prevent the problem in the first place? http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2017901782_amazonwarehouse04.html http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2017901782_a...
- TeMPOraL 13y ago
  Probably because properly air-conditioning huge spaces (that are weather-protected by design; e.g. you can't just keep roof open) eats up tons of electricity.

leef 13y ago

That is not true. Success in a job is not always defined by thinking outside the box and being creative. Often it is much simpler - show up to work on time, produce, add value as depicted in your job description. The people that do these things are the people at get the full time job at Amazon, become shift supervisors, etc. I have worked with people who started out at Amazon on the floor and are now high level managers of warehouses and software teams. I've been to a couple of the Amazon warehouses in the US and it's hardly a sweatshop. You work a normal shift, you get a lunch break, at least minimum wage, etc. It is certainly a job far removed from what I am used to now as a software developer. It was more reminiscent of my time in the Navy but still not a bad job to have and an opportunity for those who take advantage of it.

x0x0 13y ago
yeah, with ambulances staged right outside when people keel over from heat stroke [1] So many ambulances responded to medical assistance calls at the warehouse during a heat wave in May, the paper said, that the retailer paid Cetronia Ambulance Corps to have paramedics and ambulances stationed outside the warehouse during several days of excess heat over the summer. About 15 people were taken to hospitals, while 20 or 30 more were treated right there, the ambulance chief told The Call. so just like disney, really [1] http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-very-hot-warehouse/?_r=0 http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-very...