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It shows up under the reporting of the Windows Phone Division Windows Phone exists in the entertainment division, which is a division that neither pulls in big

It shows up under the reporting of the Windows Phone Division Windows Phone exists in the entertainment division, which is a division that neither pulls in big numbers, nor actually produces a profit. For the most recent quarter it still lost over $100MM. If these massive Android profits are hidden in there -- in a division that hosts both the xbox and Windows Phone, and has revenue of just two billion a quarter -- then it can't be very big. The estimate is Microsoft gets about $8 for each Android device sold There are about 1.5 million Android devices sold a day. Do you think Microsoft is making $360 million a month from Android? $4.3 billion a year? There is no universe where that is even remotely close to accurate, or Microsoft would be screaming from the mountaintops about their incredible, pure profit success. Instead they have to stuff the purported earnings into a nebulous division.

jussij 13y ago
There's plenty of evidence Microsoft is making money on Android sales as companies selling Android keep announcing patent licensing deals with Microsoft. Here is just one such an agreement: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android-patent-microsoft http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android... Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. As to the size of those royalty payments, who’s to know. Companies always keep those kind of details under wraps. But I doubt very much Microsoft is going to go easy on them. Why would they? And those patents don't only affect Android. Microsoft recently forced Tom Tom to licence their technology as well. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10206988-56.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10206988-56.html It is no wonder Google is fighting hard against patents. As the grow Android, Microsoft comes along for free, courtesy of their patent war chest. Edit: It appears Google owned Motorola is trying to fight these Microsoft patents but they appear to be losing: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/04/google-loses-appeal-against-microsofts.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/04/google-loses-appeal-again... http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/05/itc-orders-import-ban-against-motorola.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/05/itc-orders-import-ban-aga...
- corresation 13y ago
  Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. Are you actually replying to my posts, or just repeating the same content repeatedly? Yes, Microsoft keeps announcing agreements -- almost universally with companies that produce Windows Phone devices, who play along with this charade -- yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these deals are netting a dollar of revenue, further supported by the fact that Microsoft goes to great lengths to hide this income. But I doubt very much Microsoft is going to go easy on them. Why would they? Because they won't go easy on Microsoft? Microsoft is trying to make the transition to hardware (where the big money is now), and it turns out that all of those companies that Microsoft is yielding agreements have massive troves of patents that can demolish and eliminate Microsoft from the market. It appears Google owned Motorola is trying to fight these Microsoft patents but they appear to be losing Motorola told Microsoft to get lost (all Microsoft wanted, as an aside, was that Motorola keep making Windows Phone devices. That was the entirety of their demands when they didn't "go easy" on Motorola), and thus far Microsoft's effect on Motorola has been....nothing. Absolutely nothing. A couple of fringe patents that will get beaten back and beaten back.
  - jussij 13y ago
    > yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these deals are netting a dollar of revenue I'm sorry but I just don't believe you when you say there is zero evidence of them making money. They will be making big money. Why on earth would any company license its technology for zero revenue gain? > there is zero evidence As noted earlier, from the latest Microsoft quaterly reporting figures: Windows Phone revenue, reflecting patent licensing revenue and sales of Windows Phone licenses, increased $222 million. http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY13/Q4/default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earn... So Windows Phone revenue is up $222 million for the quarter, which means they are either selling lots of Windows phones or they're making money from their patent licensing agreements. It must be one or the other. Take your pick. I know which one I'd choose.
    - 13y ago

jussij 13y ago

There's plenty of evidence Microsoft is making money on Android sales as companies selling Android keep announcing patent licensing deals with Microsoft. Here is just one such an agreement: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android-patent-microsoft http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android... Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. As to the size of those royalty payments, who’s to know. Companies always keep those kind of details under wraps. But I doubt very much Microsoft is going to go easy on them. Why would they? And those patents don't only affect Android. Microsoft recently forced Tom Tom to licence their technology as well. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10206988-56.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10206988-56.html It is no wonder Google is fighting hard against patents. As the grow Android, Microsoft comes along for free, courtesy of their patent war chest. Edit: It appears Google owned Motorola is trying to fight these Microsoft patents but they appear to be losing: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/04/google-loses-appeal-against-microsofts.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/04/google-loses-appeal-again... http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/05/itc-orders-import-ban-against-motorola.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/05/itc-orders-import-ban-aga...

corresation 13y ago
Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. Are you actually replying to my posts, or just repeating the same content repeatedly? Yes, Microsoft keeps announcing agreements -- almost universally with companies that produce Windows Phone devices, who play along with this charade -- yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these deals are netting a dollar of revenue, further supported by the fact that Microsoft goes to great lengths to hide this income. But I doubt very much Microsoft is going to go easy on them. Why would they? Because they won't go easy on Microsoft? Microsoft is trying to make the transition to hardware (where the big money is now), and it turns out that all of those companies that Microsoft is yielding agreements have massive troves of patents that can demolish and eliminate Microsoft from the market. It appears Google owned Motorola is trying to fight these Microsoft patents but they appear to be losing Motorola told Microsoft to get lost (all Microsoft wanted, as an aside, was that Motorola keep making Windows Phone devices. That was the entirety of their demands when they didn't "go easy" on Motorola), and thus far Microsoft's effect on Motorola has been....nothing. Absolutely nothing. A couple of fringe patents that will get beaten back and beaten back.
- jussij 13y ago
  > yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these deals are netting a dollar of revenue I'm sorry but I just don't believe you when you say there is zero evidence of them making money. They will be making big money. Why on earth would any company license its technology for zero revenue gain? > there is zero evidence As noted earlier, from the latest Microsoft quaterly reporting figures: Windows Phone revenue, reflecting patent licensing revenue and sales of Windows Phone licenses, increased $222 million. http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY13/Q4/default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earn... So Windows Phone revenue is up $222 million for the quarter, which means they are either selling lots of Windows phones or they're making money from their patent licensing agreements. It must be one or the other. Take your pick. I know which one I'd choose.
  - 13y ago