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They make more off of Android devices than Google does. People keep saying this, though I suppose someone at Microsoft must be embezzling huge sums of money be

They make more off of Android devices than Google does. People keep saying this, though I suppose someone at Microsoft must be embezzling huge sums of money because this purported big Android windfall still fails to appear on any Microsoft quarterly report. Dear NSA: the FBI or someone should look into this. This myth is founded on Microsoft continually getting agreements with manufacturers to give them patent immunity, never with actual dollar amounts announced. Instead the press just starts inventing numbers, becoming ever more zealous with the incredible sums Microsoft is making off of Android (again, apparently completely off the books...). Given the actual reality that these dollar amounts don't exist, the next time you hear about Microsoft making enormous sums from some sucker company, realize that they probably aren't making anything, but instead are getting various cooperation agreements, where the payments are more likely fictional movements of non-money and continued involvement in Microsoft's efforts (e.g pretty please make a Windows Phone device)

jussij 13y ago
> because this purported big Android windfall still fails to appear on any Microsoft quarterly report It shows up under the reporting of the Windows Phone Division: “Windows Phone revenue, reflecting patent licensing revenue and sales of Windows Phone licenses, increased $222 million for the quarter,” http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2011/10/microsoft-collects-license-fees-on-50-of-android-devices-tells-google-to-wake-up/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2011/10/micros... > Given the actual reality that these dollar amounts don't exist The estimate is Microsoft gets about $8 for each Android device sold: http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-most-profitable-mobile-operating-system-android-7000015094/ http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-most-profitable-mobile-opera...
- corresation 13y ago
  It shows up under the reporting of the Windows Phone Division Windows Phone exists in the entertainment division, which is a division that neither pulls in big numbers, nor actually produces a profit. For the most recent quarter it still lost over $100MM. If these massive Android profits are hidden in there -- in a division that hosts both the xbox and Windows Phone, and has revenue of just two billion a quarter -- then it can't be very big. The estimate is Microsoft gets about $8 for each Android device sold There are about 1.5 million Android devices sold a day. Do you think Microsoft is making $360 million a month from Android? $4.3 billion a year? There is no universe where that is even remotely close to accurate, or Microsoft would be screaming from the mountaintops about their incredible, pure profit success. Instead they have to stuff the purported earnings into a nebulous division.
  - jussij 13y ago
    There's plenty of evidence Microsoft is making money on Android sales as companies selling Android keep announcing patent licensing deals with Microsoft. Here is just one such an agreement: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android-patent-microsoft http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android... Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. As to the size of those royalty payments, who’s to know. Companies always keep those kind of details under wraps. But I doubt very much Microsoft is going to go easy on them. Why would they? And those patents don't only affect Android. Microsoft recently forced Tom Tom to licence their technology as well. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10206988-56.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10206988-56.html It is no wonder Google is fighting hard against patents. As the grow Android, Microsoft comes along for free, courtesy of their patent war chest. Edit: It appears Google owned Motorola is trying to fight these Microsoft patents but they appear to be losing: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/04/google-loses-appeal-against-microsofts.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/04/google-loses-appeal-again... http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/05/itc-orders-import-ban-against-motorola.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/05/itc-orders-import-ban-aga...
    - corresation 13y ago
      Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. Are you actually replying to my posts, or just repeating the same content repeatedly? Yes, Microsoft keeps announcing agreements -- almost universally with companies that produce Windows Phone devices, who play along with this charade -- yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these deals are netting a dollar of revenue, further supported by the fact that Microsoft goes to great lengths to hide this income. But I doubt very much Microsoft is going to go easy on them. Why would they? Because they won't go easy on Microsoft? Microsoft is trying to make the transition to hardware (where the big money is now), and it turns out that all of those companies that Microsoft is yielding agreements have massive troves of patents that can demolish and eliminate Microsoft from the market. It appears Google owned Motorola is trying to fight these Microsoft patents but they appear to be losing Motorola told Microsoft to get lost (all Microsoft wanted, as an aside, was that Motorola keep making Windows Phone devices. That was the entirety of their demands when they didn't "go easy" on Motorola), and thus far Microsoft's effect on Motorola has been....nothing. Absolutely nothing. A couple of fringe patents that will get beaten back and beaten back.

jussij 13y ago

> because this purported big Android windfall still fails to appear on any Microsoft quarterly report It shows up under the reporting of the Windows Phone Division: “Windows Phone revenue, reflecting patent licensing revenue and sales of Windows Phone licenses, increased $222 million for the quarter,” http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2011/10/microsoft-collects-license-fees-on-50-of-android-devices-tells-google-to-wake-up/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2011/10/micros... > Given the actual reality that these dollar amounts don't exist The estimate is Microsoft gets about $8 for each Android device sold: http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-most-profitable-mobile-operating-system-android-7000015094/ http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-most-profitable-mobile-opera...

corresation 13y ago
It shows up under the reporting of the Windows Phone Division Windows Phone exists in the entertainment division, which is a division that neither pulls in big numbers, nor actually produces a profit. For the most recent quarter it still lost over $100MM. If these massive Android profits are hidden in there -- in a division that hosts both the xbox and Windows Phone, and has revenue of just two billion a quarter -- then it can't be very big. The estimate is Microsoft gets about $8 for each Android device sold There are about 1.5 million Android devices sold a day. Do you think Microsoft is making $360 million a month from Android? $4.3 billion a year? There is no universe where that is even remotely close to accurate, or Microsoft would be screaming from the mountaintops about their incredible, pure profit success. Instead they have to stuff the purported earnings into a nebulous division.
- jussij 13y ago
  There's plenty of evidence Microsoft is making money on Android sales as companies selling Android keep announcing patent licensing deals with Microsoft. Here is just one such an agreement: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android-patent-microsoft http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/apr/24/zte-android... Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. As to the size of those royalty payments, who’s to know. Companies always keep those kind of details under wraps. But I doubt very much Microsoft is going to go easy on them. Why would they? And those patents don't only affect Android. Microsoft recently forced Tom Tom to licence their technology as well. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10206988-56.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10206988-56.html It is no wonder Google is fighting hard against patents. As the grow Android, Microsoft comes along for free, courtesy of their patent war chest. Edit: It appears Google owned Motorola is trying to fight these Microsoft patents but they appear to be losing: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/04/google-loses-appeal-against-microsofts.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/04/google-loses-appeal-again... http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/05/itc-orders-import-ban-against-motorola.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/05/itc-orders-import-ban-aga...
  - corresation 13y ago
    Also, from that link, it suggests Microsoft now has 80% of the Android market covered by similar license agreements. Are you actually replying to my posts, or just repeating the same content repeatedly? Yes, Microsoft keeps announcing agreements -- almost universally with companies that produce Windows Phone devices, who play along with this charade -- yet there is zero evidence in their profits that any of these deals are netting a dollar of revenue, further supported by the fact that Microsoft goes to great lengths to hide this income. But I doubt very much Microsoft is going to go easy on them. Why would they? Because they won't go easy on Microsoft? Microsoft is trying to make the transition to hardware (where the big money is now), and it turns out that all of those companies that Microsoft is yielding agreements have massive troves of patents that can demolish and eliminate Microsoft from the market. It appears Google owned Motorola is trying to fight these Microsoft patents but they appear to be losing Motorola told Microsoft to get lost (all Microsoft wanted, as an aside, was that Motorola keep making Windows Phone devices. That was the entirety of their demands when they didn't "go easy" on Motorola), and thus far Microsoft's effect on Motorola has been....nothing. Absolutely nothing. A couple of fringe patents that will get beaten back and beaten back.